My discussions with Sertorio basically boils down to the old nature vs nurture debate. I argued that human nature is such that makes Socialism impossible to succeed. Sertorio thinks that human beings can be nurtured into selfless caring people who will put aside personal ambitions for the collective good of the society.
This discussion reminded me of Trofim Lysenko
who tried to apply Socialist ideology to plants. Lysenko did not believe in genes because the implication is that Socialism does not work.
If human beings are selfish, the Socialists claim, it is because they grew up in a capitalist society. If we change the environment, we can nurture people to be selfless because there is no such thing as an unyielding, unchangeable human nature. Applying this to plants, it means that oranges can be made to grow in Siberia. That's what Trofim Lysenko believed.
Excerpt from link:
Lysenko, undeterred, was soon bragging about growing orange trees in Siberia, ...
Needless to say, his crackpot ideas caused mass starvation. Scientists who disagreed with him were shot.
So trying to make Socialism work is like trying to make oranges grow in Siberia.