Thank you New Zealand

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:44 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:38 am

Exactly. Hopefully, "we will be a more pleasant species." And how might we achieve that?
Eliminate Islam by converting Muslims and human violence drops by 50%. Aussies and Kiwis might throw verbal shit at each other but Muslims throw bombs.

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Sertorio
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by Sertorio » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:09 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:44 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:38 am

Exactly. Hopefully, "we will be a more pleasant species." And how might we achieve that?
Eliminate Islam by converting Muslims and human violence drops by 50%. Aussies and Kiwis might throw verbal shit at each other but Muslims throw bombs.
And how do you convert Muslims without the use of violence?...

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cassowary
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by cassowary » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:42 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:09 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:44 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:38 am

Exactly. Hopefully, "we will be a more pleasant species." And how might we achieve that?
Eliminate Islam by converting Muslims and human violence drops by 50%. Aussies and Kiwis might throw verbal shit at each other but Muslims throw bombs.
And how do you convert Muslims without the use of violence?...
Conversion with violence is not a genuine conversion. I realize it is impossible to convert all Muslims. I was only talking rhetorically to make the point that roughly half the violence in this world is caused by Islam.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:04 am

As it happens, it's highly unlikely that Islam, as now constituted, is going to participate in the advancement of civilized society. Practicing Christianity in Iran is a crime.

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran- ... ity-564619

neverfail
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by neverfail » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:18 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:46 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:06 pm
Anyway, I like Kiwis. They are nice people.
I suppose they are - as long as you are not Australian. Then they chuck all of their verbal shit at you. :twisted:
Ours is a lovely species... We cannot live without enemies... And if we don't have them, we invent some... And then we bash them as hard as we can, under the excuse that they are a threat to us...

My theory is that this happens because our species is still a very young and imperfect one. Four hundred thousand years is next to nothing and we haven't yet started to polish our original imperfections. I guess that 600,000 years from now we will be a more pleasant species, if we haven't destroyed ourselves in the meantime...
Almost half a century ago while I was living in New Zealand I asked a Kiwi colleague with whom I had developed a friendly association why a lot of his compatriots seemed to have this "thing" about Australians. He revealed to me that "they are green with envy". He then went on to add that his compatriots are "a very envious people" . He cited the example of a then current strike by stevedores down at the local seaport. Their grievance was that "the meat works slaughtermen were being paid at a higher hourly rate than they were".

"It never occurred to them" he added "that the slaughtermen might be worth more to the country than they were".

There you have it. Envy moved by affronted pride!

Envy and pride. Two of the seven deadly sins as defined by the Catholic Church. But who cares about what the Catholic Church teaches these days?

Well, I do! I once had to live in New Zealand for a time to learn first hand about the sorry consequences of ignoring that particular teaching.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 am
That must be Anglican LOW Church. High Church Anglicans are Catholics in all but name.
I am literally named for my father's favourite Episcopal church (the term for Anglicanism in the U.S.), so we're in my bailiwick now. :)

Low vs. high really refer more to liturgical differences, with low church Anglicans preferring an approach more similar to mainline protestants, and high church Anglicans preferring all the pageantry one typically associates with Catholicism, e.g., thuribers smoking up the place, etc.
neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 am
Recently when we were in Canada, our hostess introduced us to her (Catholic) parish priest: a former High Anglican priest who subsequently decided that his real vocation in life lay in being a (Roman) Catholic priest. The Pope had to grant him a special dispensation from the vow of lifelong celibacy a Catholic priest normally has to enter into so that he could remain married to the wife he had wedded whilst still an Anglican priest.

That man is not by any means the first to have followed that path into our Catholic ministry. The first Catholic Cardinal appointed by the Vatican to England since the Reformation (after the passage of the Catholic Emancipation bill passed through the British parliament in 1829, making such an appointment possible) John Henry Newman was likewise a High Anglican convert to the Catholic Church.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Henry_Newman

I hope that the High Church keeps on sending us their surplus, dissident priests like that. It has proven to be a rich source of (clerical) leadership talent for my church (in light of the worldwide chronic shortfall of religious vocations for the priesthood among Catholic men).
Anglican priests who convert to Roman Catholicism are said to have "swum the Tiber". Catholic priests who convert to Anglicanism are said to have "swum the Thames". I'm not sure which happens more often. Before I'd have said the latter. But with the so-called "Continuing Anglican" movement, nowadays it may be the former, as socially conservative Anglican parishes look for an ecclesiastical home more in line with their beliefs.
neverfail wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:25 am
By the way Cass: if your friend is, as I believe, Low Church then he is a lay minister. To my understanding, ordained priesthood is only for the Anglo-Catholics.

:idea: (Well, that's quite protestant, isn't it?)
No, ordination is for all Anglican clergy. The low church folks may be more relaxed when it comes to liturgy, but it's still a church in which Apostolic succession is taken as seriously as in Catholicism or Orthodoxy.
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neverfail
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by neverfail » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:48 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 am
But with the so-called "Continuing Anglican" movement, nowadays it may be the former, as socially conservative Anglican parishes look for an ecclesiastical home more in line with their beliefs.
So within the Anglican communion there is a body of opinion that holds that the duty of the Church is to bring its teachings and standards into line with popular opinion: not to challenge the congregations and the individuals who make them up (even when to do so invites unpopularity) to bring themselves closer to God?

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:06 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:48 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 am
But with the so-called "Continuing Anglican" movement, nowadays it may be the former, as socially conservative Anglican parishes look for an ecclesiastical home more in line with their beliefs.
So within the Anglican communion there is a body of opinion that holds that the duty of the Church is to bring its teachings and standards into line with popular opinion: not to challenge the congregations and the individuals who make them up (even when to do so invites unpopularity) to bring themselves closer to God?
No, it's a theological disagreement about whether Christians are supposed to be more judgmental or more loving.
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neverfail
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by neverfail » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:21 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:06 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:48 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:38 am
But with the so-called "Continuing Anglican" movement, nowadays it may be the former, as socially conservative Anglican parishes look for an ecclesiastical home more in line with their beliefs.
So within the Anglican communion there is a body of opinion that holds that the duty of the Church is to bring its teachings and standards into line with popular opinion: not to challenge the congregations and the individuals who make them up (even when to do so invites unpopularity) to bring themselves closer to God?
No, it's a theological disagreement about whether Christians are supposed to be more judgmental or more loving.
Nicely put, Steve.

In other Christian denominations the question was settled long ago. In the Catholic Church we are supposed to love one another but unfortunately do not by any means always do so. In the Calvinist (reformed church) denominations and sects the bias is decidedly towards being judgemental; yet they do not by any benchmark standard always make sound judgements. :)

Mr. Perfect
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Re: Thank you New Zealand

Post by Mr. Perfect » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:37 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:21 pm
In other Christian denominations the question was settled long ago. In the Catholic Church we are supposed to love one another but unfortunately do not by any means always do so. In the Calvinist (reformed church) denominations and sects the bias is decidedly towards being judgemental; yet they do not by any benchmark standard always make sound judgements. :)
Where does all the child molesting fit in.

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