Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Sertorio » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:50 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:36 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:14 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:49 am

Yes, "US aerial support" is critical for Kurdish survival. Iraq has successfully screwed over Iraqi Kurdistan regarding control of airports there, and thus possibly restricting US airborne assistance in the future. We'll see - if push comes to shove, will the US aggressively support Kurds there?

Similarly, the US has supported Kurds in Rojava - air base construction, etc. US aerial support there is crucial. As least one base there should be protected for airborne delivery of weaponry and food to the Kurds.

Over the years, the US has been able to assist Israel in its fight for survival against Arab barbarians, mostly by providing materiel aid. It must be the same for Kurdistan. No US troops on the ground, but sufficient delivery of weaponry and food, backed by air strikes as necessary. Don't betray the Kurds.
The US is no longer capable of imposing its will on the ME. It may still be capable of destroying and killing, but is no longer capable of building anything, especially against the will of the locals. Iranians and Arabs are going to be masters of their own destiny, and the US is slowly - or not so slowly - being squeezed out of the region. From then on, the only way to deal with those countries will be in the respect of their sovereignty, as civilized countries should do. The question is, will the US learn to behave in a civlized manner, or not?...
It's not a question of the US "imposing its will on the ME." It's rather if the US will again betray the Kurds, who, besides the Israelis, are the only civilized folks in the ME.
I would love to see the creation of a sovereign Kurdistan, but that's a problem only Kurds can solve, not Americans. In fact, American ingerence will only result, as usual, in lots of dead people - and no Kurdistan...

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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:50 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:36 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:14 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:49 am

Yes, "US aerial support" is critical for Kurdish survival. Iraq has successfully screwed over Iraqi Kurdistan regarding control of airports there, and thus possibly restricting US airborne assistance in the future. We'll see - if push comes to shove, will the US aggressively support Kurds there?

Similarly, the US has supported Kurds in Rojava - air base construction, etc. US aerial support there is crucial. As least one base there should be protected for airborne delivery of weaponry and food to the Kurds.

Over the years, the US has been able to assist Israel in its fight for survival against Arab barbarians, mostly by providing materiel aid. It must be the same for Kurdistan. No US troops on the ground, but sufficient delivery of weaponry and food, backed by air strikes as necessary. Don't betray the Kurds.
The US is no longer capable of imposing its will on the ME. It may still be capable of destroying and killing, but is no longer capable of building anything, especially against the will of the locals. Iranians and Arabs are going to be masters of their own destiny, and the US is slowly - or not so slowly - being squeezed out of the region. From then on, the only way to deal with those countries will be in the respect of their sovereignty, as civilized countries should do. The question is, will the US learn to behave in a civlized manner, or not?...
It's not a question of the US "imposing its will on the ME." It's rather if the US will again betray the Kurds, who, besides the Israelis, are the only civilized folks in the ME.

I would love to see the creation of a sovereign Kurdistan, but that's a problem only Kurds can solve, not Americans. In fact, American ingerence will only result, as usual, in lots of dead people - and no Kurdistan...
That's not what the Kurds believe. You have consistently expressed your wishes for a sovereign Kurdistan, which is good. But the Kurds have consistently called for American support.

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Sertorio » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:30 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 am

That's not what the Kurds believe. You have consistently expressed your wishes for a sovereign Kurdistan, which is good. But the Kurds have consistently called for American support.
Americans cannot impose a Kurdistan on Turks, Iranians or even Arabs... How would they do it?...

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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:54 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:30 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:06 am

That's not what the Kurds believe. You have consistently expressed your wishes for a sovereign Kurdistan, which is good. But the Kurds have consistently called for American support.
Americans cannot impose a Kurdistan on Turks, Iranians or even Arabs... How would they do it?...
You're correct - they can't. The most America can do is to fulfill promises to assist the Kurds in their struggles.

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Alexis
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Alexis » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:48 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:50 am
I would love to see the creation of a sovereign Kurdistan, but that's a problem only Kurds can solve, not Americans. In fact, American ingerence will only result, as usual, in lots of dead people - and no Kurdistan...
I would love to see Syria rid from Islamist rebels, but that's a problem only Syrians can solve, not Russians. In fact, Russian ingerence will only result, as usual, in lots of dead people - and no Islamist defeat...

Were you also saying that in 2015 when Russia began to intervene in Syria :) ?

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Sertorio » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:39 am

Alexis wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:48 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:50 am
I would love to see the creation of a sovereign Kurdistan, but that's a problem only Kurds can solve, not Americans. In fact, American ingerence will only result, as usual, in lots of dead people - and no Kurdistan...
I would love to see Syria rid from Islamist rebels, but that's a problem only Syrians can solve, not Russians. In fact, Russian ingerence will only result, as usual, in lots of dead people - and no Islamist defeat...

Were you also saying that in 2015 when Russia began to intervene in Syria :) ?
The difference is: Russians have been (are being) successful, Americans weren't. By committing just enough forces and being loyal to its allies (something Americans never are), Russia has completely turned the tide in Syria. Soon enough Syria will be free of rebels and invading forces - including American and French - and will be again a full sovereign state. And I think this time Bashar al-Assad will reform the system enough to satisfy many of his critics.

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Alexis
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Alexis » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:19 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:39 am
Alexis wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:48 am
Were you also saying that in 2015 when Russia began to intervene in Syria :) ?
The difference is: Russians have been (are being) successful, Americans weren't. By committing just enough forces and being loyal to its allies (something Americans never are), Russia has completely turned the tide in Syria. Soon enough Syria will be free of rebels and invading forces - including American and French - and will be again a full sovereign state. And I think this time Bashar al-Assad will reform the system enough to satisfy many of his critics.
America has not yet really attempted to support the Kurds enough so that they can at the same time continue fighting ISIS and repel the Sultan's attacks in the North. There is no basis to say that "Americans weren't" successful. As for the idea that Americans are "never" loyal, well that's an idea Americans could very easily disprove :) ...

Russia indeed turned the tide, which was a good thing for Syria, for herself, even for us Europeans. Only Saudi, Qatar and the other Jihadist helpers are distressed when their Salafist minions lose.

As for regaining control over the whole of Syria, including the East under Kurdish supervision, I can't see Syrians doing that except through negotiation and offering the Kurds an autonomous status within Syria.

I wish America and France would support such a solution against attempts by Al-Assad to force himself as well as attempts by Erdogan to build on his Kurdish-killing obsession, using as arguments the possibility of air strikes and above all... the possibility to provide weapons to Kurds. Lots of weapons. :mrgreen:


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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:46 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:39 am
The difference is: Russians have been (are being) successful, Americans weren't. By committing just enough forces and being loyal to its allies (something Americans never are), Russia has completely turned the tide in Syria. Soon enough Syria will be free of rebels and invading forces - including American and French - and will be again a full sovereign state. And I think this time Bashar al-Assad will reform the system enough to satisfy many of his critics.
All of this may indeed happen, except for the last part. Once Assad is safely in control of the whole country, the desert will be red with the blood of those who opposed him.
Alexis wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:19 am
America has not yet really attempted to support the Kurds enough so that they can at the same time continue fighting ISIS and repel the Sultan's attacks in the North. There is no basis to say that "Americans weren't" successful. As for the idea that Americans are "never" loyal, well that's an idea Americans could very easily disprove :) ...
They could, but unfortunately betraying the Kurds seems to have become something of an American tradition. :(
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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Sertorio
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Sertorio » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:14 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:46 am
Once Assad is safely in control of the whole country, the desert will be red with the blood of those who opposed him.
Bashar al-Assad is not Saddam Hussein. I don't think he is the bloodthirsty monster the western propaganda likes to picture. Once he wins the war he can afford - and Russia will push him in that direction - liberalizing somewhat the regime. He is closer to the type of ruler Abdullah II and Mohammed VI are than most people think.

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Milo
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Re: Trump wants Arab allies to replace US troops in Syria

Post by Milo » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:01 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:46 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:39 am
The difference is: Russians have been (are being) successful, Americans weren't. By committing just enough forces and being loyal to its allies (something Americans never are), Russia has completely turned the tide in Syria. Soon enough Syria will be free of rebels and invading forces - including American and French - and will be again a full sovereign state. And I think this time Bashar al-Assad will reform the system enough to satisfy many of his critics.
All of this may indeed happen, except for the last part. Once Assad is safely in control of the whole country, the desert will be red with the blood of those who opposed him.
Alexis wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:19 am
America has not yet really attempted to support the Kurds enough so that they can at the same time continue fighting ISIS and repel the Sultan's attacks in the North. There is no basis to say that "Americans weren't" successful. As for the idea that Americans are "never" loyal, well that's an idea Americans could very easily disprove :) ...
They could, but unfortunately betraying the Kurds seems to have become something of an American tradition. :(
All of the above.

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