Australian Bushfires

Discussion of current events
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Doc
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by Doc » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:14 pm

"How Davos You !!!"


“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by cassowary » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:53 pm
Exactly. You don’t have a choice. Renewables and fossil fuel generated electricity goes into the grid and the quantum of renewables is mandated by a target. You don’t have a free market. If you did renewables won’t be competitive.
The "target" is only an international one agreed to between governments : not one that our government can impose on the energy companies compelling them to invest in renewable. Any more than it can compel motorists not to drive petrol powered autos.

Considering that we have been over this ground several times before, I have concluded that you must be pulling my leg to see what you can get out of me. Surely, nobody could possibly be so block headed stupid that he could not have figured that out for himself. :D
Can’t you see that the energy companies MUST buy 20% (or whatever the target is) of its energy from renewables? There is thus no free market.

It is this target that is causing demand for renewables. In other words, even though renewables are more expensive the energy companies have to buy. The cost is passed down to the consumers.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:46 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

Can’t you see that the energy companies MUST buy 20% (or whatever the target is) of its energy from renewables? There is thus no free market.
Why must they? There is no law I know of to compel them to.

Those "emissions targets" are a bit of a sham anyway. There is no penalty on countries that fail to achieve them and few manage to do so.

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cassowary
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by cassowary » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:18 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

Can’t you see that the energy companies MUST buy 20% (or whatever the target is) of its energy from renewables? There is thus no free market.
Why must they? There is no law I know of to compel them to.

Those "emissions targets" are a bit of a sham anyway. There is no penalty on countries that fail to achieve them and few manage to do so.
So are you saying your government is not taking it seriously? How many % of your electricity is from renewables? I believe your target is 20%.
The Imp :D

Jim the Moron
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by Jim the Moron » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:22 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

Can’t you see that the energy companies MUST buy 20% (or whatever the target is) of its energy from renewables? There is thus no free market.
Why must they? There is no law I know of to compel them to.

Those "emissions targets" are a bit of a sham anyway. There is no penalty on countries that fail to achieve them and few manage to do so.
Yep. Few countries that signed the Paris Agreement make any effort to comply. US non-participation becomes effective this November - but it is of no consequence - as the US is a leader in reduced CO2 emissions. This is mostly due to production of natural gas there, thanks to the invention (by Americans) of hydraulic fracturing.

neverfail
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:50 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:18 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:00 am

Can’t you see that the energy companies MUST buy 20% (or whatever the target is) of its energy from renewables? There is thus no free market.
Why must they? There is no law I know of to compel them to.

Those "emissions targets" are a bit of a sham anyway. There is no penalty on countries that fail to achieve them and few manage to do so.
So are you saying your government is not taking it seriously? How many % of your electricity is from renewables? I believe your target is 20%.
Of course it isn't Cassowary. Not in the sense that it is willing or able to impose mandatory quotas on our electric power producing corporations. Governments around the world that have signed up to the protocol are likewise failing to meet their greenhouse gas reduction targets - probably for similar reasons.

I should not need to post that for you as this info is readily available online. But for your edification here it is:
Oil accounted for the largest share of Australia's primary energy mix in 2017–18, at 39 per cent, followed by coal (30 per cent) and natural gas (25 per cent). Renewable energy sources accounted for 6 per cent. Coal use fell by 4 per cent in 2017–18, and was 21 per cent below its peak in 2008–09.
Australian Energy Update 2019 - Energy.gov.au
https://www.energy.gov.au › sites › default › files › australian_energy_statist...
Please note that this covers energy use in all its forms - not just electrical power generation.
.................................................................................................................................
Chart of the day: Something has gone terribly wrong with electricity prices
Story Lab By Joshua Byrd
Posted 18 Jul 2018, 9:46am

We hear a lot about power prices in Australia: the electricity market is "broken" and needs a "laser-like focus" to fix. But was it always this way?

Throughout the 1980s, '90s, and most of the 2000s, electricity prices tracked fairly closely to general consumer price trends.

In the past decade, however, electricity has shot off the charts. Since 2008 power prices have risen 117 per cent, more than four times the average price increase across sectors.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-18/ ... ay/9985300
I do not need online info like that to tell me that. I know from just how much our own household power bills have risen in recent years (despite the fact that we are consuming less electric power these days) that it is true. Everyone we know is complaining about it. So much for coal fired electric power being "competitive". We (the consumers) would just have to be better off now with renewables.

I would like you to also note that back in the 1980's, '90's etc nearly all of this country's electric power supply (indeed, this was the local tradition dating back to the early 20th century) was produced by state-owned electric power plant and distributed via state owned transmission lines and urban retail grids. You can see from the above info which of the two was the better. Back in those wonderful times electric power price increases only kept pace with the prevailing general increase in the price of all goods and services. I would attribute those modest price increases to the fact that while the state power supply corporations still had to recover their costs and reap some profits to pay to state treasury; governments ever mindful of the fact that consumers are also voters had an interest in keeping consumers reasonably content.

But beginning with the State of Victoria in the Mid-1990's (which had almost gone bankrupt and needed to sell off some state assets to remain solvent) our state governments caught the globally fashionable privatization bug. The consequence is that electric power supply and distribution in this country is now in the hands of an oligopoly of large private corporations who seem to have a much stronger commitment to keeping their shareholders happy than concern over consumer price contentment.

I hope that this info will open your eyes to the fact that it is better for the wellbeing of the public that certain key strategic industries should be kept in public ownership than to be entrusted to the tender loving care of free enterprise. :lol: But knowing how capitalism for you is like a religious passion (the very same error that you are wont to accuse socialists of) you probably won't believe it.

neverfail
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Re: Australian Bushfires - political fallout!

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:11 pm

Science Minister says climate denial a waste of time in wake of fires

Australia's bushfire crisis has prompted a blunt warning from Science Minister Karen Andrews to those she says are wasting time arguing about whether climate change is real.

Ms Andrews will convene a roundtable meeting of top scientists on Wednesday to kickstart work in response to the "devastating and surprising" bushfires this summer.

"Every second we spend discussing if climate change is real is a second we don't spend addressing these issues. Let's move on and get over this," she told the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

Ms Andrews warned unnecessary debate could distract from the urgent need to develop new bushfire adaptation and mitigation techniques. Her intervention is another step in the Coalition's recent shift in rhetoric over climate change, after a decade of divisions over the issue dominating the party room.
Science Minister Karen Andrews' would appear to be a voice of sanity from within a government that has for years been held to ransom from within due to by a faction of refractory climate change deniers pushing their factional barrow as cost to the country.

Hopefully the recent (and still ongoing) bushfire emergency will have the beneficial effect of opening up even their eyes to rerality - resulting in much needed government policy changes.

neverfail
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Re: meantime, at Private enterprise level:

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:19 pm

Institutional investors increasingly taking their own climate action

"The choice is clear. Out of the ashes, 2020 can be a climate turning point for our country. Otherwise we will face increasing risks to our communities and our economy."

Emma Herd is chief executive of the Investor Group on Climate Change.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the- ... 53raz.html

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cassowary
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by cassowary » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:30 pm

According to Wiki, Australia managed to hit the mandatory renewables target of 23% of electricity production even though renewables account for only 6.2% of total energy usage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewab ... _Australia.

I suspect that at least part of the reason electricity is more expensive is because of the mandatory target since renewables are more expensive than fossil fuels.

If renewables are cheaper there is no need for mandatory targets.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: Australian Bushfires

Post by cassowary » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:41 pm

Neverfail, I found this article explaining why Aussie electricity is one of the world’s most expensive.

https://electricityandgas.com.au/blog/w ... australia/

One of the reasons is green energy. But the article blamed everybody including the consumer.
The Imp :D

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