Elections in Portugal

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neverfail
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Location: Singapore

Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by neverfail » Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:14 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:36 am
hahaha
Very enlightening to see that you are more interested in erections than in elections... But that's what capitalism is all about: screwing people rather than giving them a voice... :lol:
On the contrary, capitalism gives everybody a voice, unlike Socialism. Our voices come from millions of individual choices buying or selling goods and services.

This determines what is made or not made and who gets rich and who gets poor. Socialism has an unelected elite deciding everything for the people.
People's voices may be a bit distorted when you are strangling them... :twisted:

Image
That’s why some countries go broke. Too much free stuff.
Going by the scale of its national debt, the USA is going broke from too many tax cuts.

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armchair_pundit
Posts: 199
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Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by armchair_pundit » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:14 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:36 am
hahaha
Very enlightening to see that you are more interested in erections than in elections... But that's what capitalism is all about: screwing people rather than giving them a voice... :lol:
On the contrary, capitalism gives everybody a voice, unlike Socialism. Our voices come from millions of individual choices buying or selling goods and services.

This determines what is made or not made and who gets rich and who gets poor. Socialism has an unelected elite deciding everything for the people.
People's voices may be a bit distorted when you are strangling them... :twisted:

Image
That’s why some countries go broke. Too much free stuff.
Going by the scale of its national debt, the USA is going broke from too many tax cuts.
Spoken like a true leftist...

Perhaps it from out of control spending? hmmmm? From leftist politicrats trying to buy peoples votes by promising them other peoples money? (and do the suckers actually ever get any of that promised money?)

A thinking person, not driven by their bias, would propose both need to be reformed. Taxes are wickedly unfair and skewed to benefit the rich, spending is out of control at every level and all they do is propose more...

The center can not hold.

(and it is probably the same in Australia, yes?)

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cassowary
Posts: 3294
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by cassowary » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:25 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:14 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:36 am
hahaha
Very enlightening to see that you are more interested in erections than in elections... But that's what capitalism is all about: screwing people rather than giving them a voice... :lol:
On the contrary, capitalism gives everybody a voice, unlike Socialism. Our voices come from millions of individual choices buying or selling goods and services.

This determines what is made or not made and who gets rich and who gets poor. Socialism has an unelected elite deciding everything for the people.
People's voices may be a bit distorted when you are strangling them... :twisted:

Image
That’s why some countries go broke. Too much free stuff.
Going by the scale of its national debt, the USA is going broke from too many tax cuts.
The Trump tax cuts actually raised revenues a little. It is the out of control
Spending promised by leftists to buy votes with other people’s money that is the cause of the debt.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
Posts: 3294
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by cassowary » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:27 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:32 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:14 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:53 am


Very enlightening to see that you are more interested in erections than in elections... But that's what capitalism is all about: screwing people rather than giving them a voice... :lol:
On the contrary, capitalism gives everybody a voice, unlike Socialism. Our voices come from millions of individual choices buying or selling goods and services.

This determines what is made or not made and who gets rich and who gets poor. Socialism has an unelected elite deciding everything for the people.
People's voices may be a bit distorted when you are strangling them... :twisted:

Image
That’s why some countries go broke. Too much free stuff.
Going by the scale of its national debt, the USA is going broke from too many tax cuts.
Spoken like a true leftist...

Perhaps it from out of control spending? hmmmm? From leftist politicrats trying to buy peoples votes by promising them other peoples money? (and do the suckers actually ever get any of that promised money?)

A thinking person, not driven by their bias, would propose both need to be reformed. Taxes are wickedly unfair and skewed to benefit the rich, spending is out of control at every level and all they do is propose more...

The center can not hold.

(and it is probably the same in Australia, yes?)
I have not looked at Australia. But it’s probably the same because all democracies have the same systemic flaw.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 4104
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:17 pm

armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm


Going by the scale of its national debt, the USA is going broke from too many tax cuts.
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Spoken like a true leftist...
Spoken like somebody who knows what he is talking about. :D

Now, read carefully armchair_pundit and who knows? One of these days you might know what you are talking about too.
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Perhaps it from out of control spending? hmmmm? From leftist politicrats trying to buy peoples votes by promising them other peoples money? (and do the suckers actually ever get any of that promised money?)
Wild, speculative guesswork on your part. I can see that you have read too much of Cassowary's pitch and (speaking of "suckers") taken it to heart.
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
A thinking person, not driven by their bias, would propose both need to be reformed. Taxes are wickedly unfair and skewed to benefit the rich, spending is out of control at every level and all they do is propose more...
Now you are talking sense.!

armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
The center can not hold.

(and it is probably the same in Australia, yes?)
No, not quite A_P. Here the government is forecasting our first budget surplus in a decade - aided by taxes on burgeoning export sales of iron ore. Yet because of weaknesses in our domestic economy (e.g. shortfalls of consumer spending resulting from lack of wage increases combined with rising living costs) our central bank governor is urging our elected government to spend more; even at the cost of running further budget defects and adding to the national debt in the process. Our Reserve Bank has cut interest rates almost to the point of zero and the hoped for economic revival is not happening. The Prime Minister (typical of him) has publicly refuted him for it; having for years made a sacred cow over bringing the national budget back to surplus.

Yep! That is the way things are done out here.

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cassowary
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Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by cassowary » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:35 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:17 pm
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 2:40 pm


Going by the scale of its national debt, the USA is going broke from too many tax cuts.
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Spoken like a true leftist...
Spoken like somebody who knows what he is talking about. :D

Now, read carefully armchair_pundit and who knows? One of these days you might know what you are talking about too.
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
Perhaps it from out of control spending? hmmmm? From leftist politicrats trying to buy peoples votes by promising them other peoples money? (and do the suckers actually ever get any of that promised money?)
Wild, speculative guesswork on your part. I can see that you have read too much of Cassowary's pitch and (speaking of "suckers") taken it to heart.
armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
A thinking person, not driven by their bias, would propose both need to be reformed. Taxes are wickedly unfair and skewed to benefit the rich, spending is out of control at every level and all they do is propose more...
Now you are talking sense.!

armchair_pundit wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:32 pm
The center can not hold.

(and it is probably the same in Australia, yes?)
No, not quite A_P. Here the government is forecasting our first budget surplus in a decade - aided by taxes on burgeoning export sales of iron ore. Yet because of weaknesses in our domestic economy (e.g. shortfalls of consumer spending resulting from lack of wage increases combined with rising living costs) our central bank governor is urging our elected government to spend more; even at the cost of running further budget defects and adding to the national debt in the process. Our Reserve Bank has cut interest rates almost to the point of zero and the hoped for economic revival is not happening. The Prime Minister (typical of him) has publicly refuted him for it; having for years made a sacred cow over bringing the national budget back to surplus.

Yep! That is the way things are done out here.
No Armchair is right. It is not the tax cut that caused Budget deficit to go up. It’s the increase in spending. Tax revenue actually went up slightly after the tax cuts.

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.wsj ... 1557691166
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 4104
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Please cease fantasizing about the trump tax cuts.

Post by neverfail » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:53 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:35 am

No Armchair is right. It is not the tax cut that caused Budget deficit to go up. It’s the increase in spending. Tax revenue actually went up slightly after the tax cuts.

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.wsj ... 1557691166
I cannot read the whole of your link because the publication you quoted from insists that the reader subscribe before it reveals more than the first two paragraphs. But I would like to draw your attention to the following:
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ue-3305762

FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted.
FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated.
FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion.
FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion.
FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion.
2008 - $2.52 trillion.

FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion.
FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion.
FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion.

FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion.
FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion.
FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.

FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion.


Please note 1). The sudden -plunge in US Federal tax revenues between 2000 and 2001. That coincided with the "tech wreck" recession that took place at the time. The following years I have coloured red to illustrate the subsequent years in which Federal revenues remained below but gradually returned to better than the year 2000 collection of $2.03 trillion. Economic recovery complete the following 3 years were years of economic boom - reflected in rising tax revenues (coloured in green).

Then note the sudden plunge 2008 into 2009 (red) coinciding with the GFC plunge into recession. I have left the following years until 2012 coloured red to highlight just how in those years of recover the federal tax take still fell below the former 2007 peak of 42.57 trillion dollars - broadly, a replay of the 2001 to 2004 years of economic recovery.

Since 2013 the federal income from taxes has steadily risen year by year ever since marking out a new period of uninterrupted economic growth. Since Trump was not sworn in as President until January 2017 he cannot claim credit for any of the preceding 4 years of post-recovery economic growth and growth in government tax income.
.......................................................................................................................................

Another interesting feature is that since Trump took over the federal tax take has increased by only just under
3.49% ($3.32 to $3.44 trillion rise 2017 to 2019 incl.). In the final 3 years off the Obama administration (2014 - 2016 incl.) the rise was from $3.02 to $3.27 trillion: that's almost a 8.28% rise over the equivalent number of years.

A rising tide lifts all boats Cassowary. Since Obama provided no tax cuts over that period like those much vaunted ones granted by Trump yet the rise in the tax intake during those last 3 years of Obama was still significantly more impressive; then I contend that the rise in the tax take has nothing to do with the Trump tax cuts but are a continuum of the trend already in place during the Obama incumbency.

The above figures do not lie, Cass. Nor do I.

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cassowary
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Re: Please cease fantasizing about the trump tax cuts.

Post by cassowary » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:57 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:53 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:35 am

No Armchair is right. It is not the tax cut that caused Budget deficit to go up. It’s the increase in spending. Tax revenue actually went up slightly after the tax cuts.

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/www.wsj ... 1557691166
I cannot read the whole of your link because the publication you quoted from insists that the reader subscribe before it reveals more than the first two paragraphs. But I would like to draw your attention to the following:
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s- ... ue-3305762

FY 2020 - $3.64 trillion, budgeted.
FY 2019 - $3.44 trillion, estimated.
FY 2018 - $3.33 trillion.
FY 2017 - $3.32 trillion.
FY 2016 - $3.27 trillion.
FY 2015 - $3.25 trillion.
FY 2014 - $3.02 trillion.
FY 2013 - $2.77 trillion.
FY 2012 - $2.45 trillion.
FY 2011 - $2.30 trillion.
FY 2010 - $2.16 trillion.
FY 2009 - $2.10 trillion.
2008 - $2.52 trillion.

FY 2007 - $2.57 trillion.
FY 2006 - $2.4 trillion.
FY 2005 - $2.15 trillion.

FY 2004 - $1.88 trillion.
FY 2003 - $1.72 trillion.
FY 2002 - $1.85 trillion.
FY 2001 - $1.99 trillion.

FY 2000 - $2.03 trillion.


Please note 1). The sudden -plunge in US Federal tax revenues between 2000 and 2001. That coincided with the "tech wreck" recession that took place at the time. The following years I have coloured red to illustrate the subsequent years in which Federal revenues remained below but gradually returned to better than the year 2000 collection of $2.03 trillion. Economic recovery complete the following 3 years were years of economic boom - reflected in rising tax revenues (coloured in green).

Then note the sudden plunge 2008 into 2009 (red) coinciding with the GFC plunge into recession. I have left the following years until 2012 coloured red to highlight just how in those years of recover the federal tax take still fell below the former 2007 peak of 42.57 trillion dollars - broadly, a replay of the 2001 to 2004 years of economic recovery.

Since 2013 the federal income from taxes has steadily risen year by year ever since marking out a new period of uninterrupted economic growth. Since Trump was not sworn in as President until January 2017 he cannot claim credit for any of the preceding 4 years of post-recovery economic growth and growth in government tax income.
.......................................................................................................................................

Another interesting feature is that since Trump took over the federal tax take has increased by only just under
3.49% ($3.32 to $3.44 trillion rise 2017 to 2019 incl.). In the final 3 years off the Obama administration (2014 - 2016 incl.) the rise was from $3.02 to $3.27 trillion: that's almost a 8.28% rise over the equivalent number of years.

A rising tide lifts all boats Cassowary. Since Obama provided no tax cuts over that period like those much vaunted ones granted by Trump yet the rise in the tax intake during those last 3 years of Obama was still significantly more impressive; then I contend that the rise in the tax take has nothing to do with the Trump tax cuts but are a continuum of the trend already in place during the Obama incumbency.

The above figures do not lie, Cass. Nor do I.


The point I was trying to make was that the increased Budget deficit was caused by increased spending and not the tax cuts.

In fact, according to your numbers federal tax revenue rose despite the massive tax cuts.

The more rapid growth more than compensated for the lower tax rates.

Since Trump took office growth rate was higher than the anemic growth of the oBUMa years.

Without the tax cuts and deregulation the US would have gone into recession. The economy was slowing down in 2016.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: Elections in Portugal

Post by cassowary » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:59 am

I don’t understand why my post was in green. Not intended. But never mind.
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neverfail
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Re: Please cease fantasizing about the trump tax cuts.

Post by neverfail » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:06 pm

cassowary wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:57 am


In fact, according to your numbers federal tax revenue rose despite the massive tax cuts.
The point that I made was that they rising in the several years before without tax cuts and would have still risen more than they did had Trump not provided those unneeded tax cuts.
cassowary wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:57 am
The more rapid growth more than compensated for the lower tax rates.


Rubbish! You are being blind to the truth Cass (not for the first time either). As I pointed out the US Federal tax take was considerably less in 2016 - 2018 than in the preceding 3 (Obama) years. Please re-read the figures and be enlightened (if you dare).
cassowary wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:57 am
Since Trump took office growth rate was higher than the anemic growth of the oBUMa years.


Yes, for one fleeting year only. In the Obama (not OBUMa - show the man more respect) years the growth might have been slower but at least was long term and sustainable. About the best you can hope for out of such an unreformed, corporatised economy like that of the US. In case you have not noticed the US growth rate has since slowed back to the "anemic" Obama years growth rate - as I predicted on this website some time ago. The sugar hit of one off tax cuts is no substitute for the structural reform that the US economy has been crying out for for several decades but which the imbecile US domestic political power structure ensures can never happen. By the way: I hope that you are aware that the US economy is currently at tipping point for the next recession (which, if and when it happens, is destined to be a howler).
cassowary wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:57 am
Without the tax cuts and deregulation the US would have gone into recession. The economy was slowing down in 2016.
The Trump taxation sugar hit may have only postponed the inevitable. Economic policy should not be enacted for the sake of short-term political popularity but aim for long term sustainability.

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