One belt One Road One Ring To Rule Them All

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Doc
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One belt One Road One Ring To Rule Them All

Post by Doc » Mon May 13, 2019 6:44 pm

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: One belt One Road One Ring To Rule Them All

Post by neverfail » Mon May 13, 2019 8:04 pm

New Zealanders tend to be a proud and envious people - I have lived among them. Their country is provincial and narrowly focused.

As a flashback I would like to draw your attention back to the time of the Lange Labour government back in the 1980's. The Lange government infuriated the Reagan administration when it passed legislation banning all nuclear armed and powered ships from New Zealand ports. It meant that ships of the US Navy could no longer even pay courteousy calls to NZ ports. The Reagan administration responded by expelling this country from the Western alliance in all but name.

Just in case any reader believes that this move by the Lange government was a sign of socialism at work allow me to reassure you that you are dead wrong. New Zealand has a combined Maori and Pacific Islander population numbering up to 25% of their entire population. As a New Zealand internet colleague pointed out to me several years ago: Polynesians, regardless of whether Maori or Islander, are diabolically scared of nuclear power in all of its forms and manifestations. Prime Minister Lange represented a constituency in the suburbs of Auckland with a sizable Maori/islander component resident in it. His government's move was NOT an anti-American one but instead a narrowly focused response to the demands and entreaties of a key part of his own (and his party's) voter support base within New Zealand.

It was a move made without consideration to the wider geopolitical flow-on consequences of his move. Parochial politics!

It made New Zealand a loose cannon within the context of Reagan's ongoing campaign to bring the Soviet union undone. His administration had to punish New Zealand - not because this country would have been any loss to the Western web of alliances; but out of fear that if the US allowed NZ to get away with it unpunished, other allies more important to the US such as Japan, Denmark and Norway may be tempted to follow suit.

Did the New Zealand public punish the Lange government at the polls at their next national elections for having lost New Zealand the favor of the United States? New Zealander see their country as something as an heroic little David in a world dominated by Goliaths. The USA is seen as one of the global Goliaths. New Zealand public opinion wallowed in both the international publicity and in the sense that heroic little David had given one of the World's Goliaths one in the eye.

The point I wish to make is that New Zealand has NEVER placed such a high value on its membership in the Western alliance as Australia has and does. On that basis it might be wise if New Zealand were to be expelled from the five eyes intelligence sharing community.

I would not be surprised if the very same narcissism that prompted NZ public opinion to support Lange in the passage of his anti-nuclear ships legislation and its aftermath were now propelling this country into the tentacles of the PRC and its ruling Communist Party. Do not underestimate what a potent factor frustrated national pride can play into propelling governments and nations along such a path.

Cheers!

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Doc
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Re: One belt One Road One Ring To Rule Them All

Post by Doc » Mon May 13, 2019 11:09 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:04 pm
New Zealanders tend to be a proud and envious people - I have lived among them. Their country is provincial and narrowly focused.

As a flashback I would like to draw your attention back to the time of the Lange Labour government back in the 1980's. The Lange government infuriated the Reagan administration when it passed legislation banning all nuclear armed and powered ships from New Zealand ports. It meant that ships of the US Navy could no longer even pay courteousy calls to NZ ports. The Reagan administration responded by expelling this country from the Western alliance in all but name.

Just in case any reader believes that this move by the Lange government was a sign of socialism at work allow me to reassure you that you are dead wrong. New Zealand has a combined Maori and Pacific Islander population numbering up to 25% of their entire population. As a New Zealand internet colleague pointed out to me several years ago: Polynesians, regardless of whether Maori or Islander, are diabolically scared of nuclear power in all of its forms and manifestations. Prime Minister Lange represented a constituency in the suburbs of Auckland with a sizable Maori/islander component resident in it. His government's move was NOT an anti-American one but instead a narrowly focused response to the demands and entreaties of a key part of his own (and his party's) voter support base within New Zealand.

It was a move made without consideration to the wider geopolitical flow-on consequences of his move. Parochial politics!

It made New Zealand a loose cannon within the context of Reagan's ongoing campaign to bring the Soviet union undone. His administration had to punish New Zealand - not because this country would have been any loss to the Western web of alliances; but out of fear that if the US allowed NZ to get away with it unpunished, other allies more important to the US such as Japan, Denmark and Norway may be tempted to follow suit.

Did the New Zealand public punish the Lange government at the polls at their next national elections for having lost New Zealand the favor of the United States? New Zealander see their country as something as an heroic little David in a world dominated by Goliaths. The USA is seen as one of the global Goliaths. New Zealand public opinion wallowed in both the international publicity and in the sense that heroic little David had given one of the World's Goliaths one in the eye.

The point I wish to make is that New Zealand has NEVER placed such a high value on its membership in the Western alliance as Australia has and does. On that basis it might be wise if New Zealand were to be expelled from the five eyes intelligence sharing community.

I would not be surprised if the very same narcissism that prompted NZ public opinion to support Lange in the passage of his anti-nuclear ships legislation and its aftermath were now propelling this country into the tentacles of the PRC and its ruling Communist Party. Do not underestimate what a potent factor frustrated national pride can play into propelling governments and nations along such a path.

Cheers!
I agree about the five eyes. I read somewhere that native New Zealanders was rapidly becoming Muslim. Do you know if that is true?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: One belt One Road One Ring To Rule Them All

Post by Sertorio » Tue May 14, 2019 3:33 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 8:04 pm
New Zealanders tend to be a proud and envious people - I have lived among them. Their country is provincial and narrowly focused.

As a flashback I would like to draw your attention back to the time of the Lange Labour government back in the 1980's. The Lange government infuriated the Reagan administration when it passed legislation banning all nuclear armed and powered ships from New Zealand ports. It meant that ships of the US Navy could no longer even pay courteousy calls to NZ ports. The Reagan administration responded by expelling this country from the Western alliance in all but name.

Just in case any reader believes that this move by the Lange government was a sign of socialism at work allow me to reassure you that you are dead wrong. New Zealand has a combined Maori and Pacific Islander population numbering up to 25% of their entire population. As a New Zealand internet colleague pointed out to me several years ago: Polynesians, regardless of whether Maori or Islander, are diabolically scared of nuclear power in all of its forms and manifestations. Prime Minister Lange represented a constituency in the suburbs of Auckland with a sizable Maori/islander component resident in it. His government's move was NOT an anti-American one but instead a narrowly focused response to the demands and entreaties of a key part of his own (and his party's) voter support base within New Zealand.

It was a move made without consideration to the wider geopolitical flow-on consequences of his move. Parochial politics!

It made New Zealand a loose cannon within the context of Reagan's ongoing campaign to bring the Soviet union undone. His administration had to punish New Zealand - not because this country would have been any loss to the Western web of alliances; but out of fear that if the US allowed NZ to get away with it unpunished, other allies more important to the US such as Japan, Denmark and Norway may be tempted to follow suit.

Did the New Zealand public punish the Lange government at the polls at their next national elections for having lost New Zealand the favor of the United States? New Zealander see their country as something as an heroic little David in a world dominated by Goliaths. The USA is seen as one of the global Goliaths. New Zealand public opinion wallowed in both the international publicity and in the sense that heroic little David had given one of the World's Goliaths one in the eye.

The point I wish to make is that New Zealand has NEVER placed such a high value on its membership in the Western alliance as Australia has and does. On that basis it might be wise if New Zealand were to be expelled from the five eyes intelligence sharing community.

I would not be surprised if the very same narcissism that prompted NZ public opinion to support Lange in the passage of his anti-nuclear ships legislation and its aftermath were now propelling this country into the tentacles of the PRC and its ruling Communist Party. Do not underestimate what a potent factor frustrated national pride can play into propelling governments and nations along such a path.

Cheers!
I'm starting to feel increasingly sympathetic of New Zealand and New Zealanders... :D

neverfail
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Re: a match?

Post by neverfail » Tue May 14, 2019 3:43 am

Doc wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:09 pm

I agree about the five eyes. I read somewhere that native New Zealanders were rapidly becoming Muslim. Do you know if that is true?
I read recently in one of our papers that some Maoris have become convert to Islam in recent years but I don't believe that it has yet assumed epidemic proportions.

They have certainly come up with one or two rather weird Christian heresies of their own over the years, so I would not be surprised if more of them in future were attracted to Islam.

Maoris view their heritage as that of a warrior people. Cassowary keeps on assuring us that Islam is a warrior religion.

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Re: a match?

Post by Doc » Tue May 14, 2019 5:55 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:43 am
Doc wrote:
Mon May 13, 2019 11:09 pm

I agree about the five eyes. I read somewhere that native New Zealanders were rapidly becoming Muslim. Do you know if that is true?
I read recently in one of our papers that some Maoris have become convert to Islam in recent years but I don't believe that it has yet assumed epidemic proportions.

They have certainly come up with one or two rather weird Christian heresies of their own over the years, so I would not be surprised if more of them in future were attracted to Islam.

Maoris view their heritage as that of a warrior people. Cassowary keeps on assuring us that Islam is a warrior religion.
Osama Bin laden's, father after the 6 days Arab Israeli war, ordered the engineers of his construction company to turn the company's bull doziers into tanks. He was probably around 60 years old at that point.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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