Trade War

Discussion of current events
neverfail
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Re: Trade War

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:43 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:13 am

For hundreds of years Portugal was not interested in sovereignty over Macao, only in its use for trade. That's the Portuguese historic position, and one with which China was quite happy. The situation after the opium wars was an anomaly, as far as Portuguese diplomacy was concerned. We didn't need sovereignty over Macao, we took it dragged by the UK. And China knows that our sustained position over the centuries was a very different one, and that's why China treats Portugal differently from, for instance, the UK. You may be sure that the signs of friendship towards Portugal shown by President Xi are not a mistake, but the consequence of China understanding very well our historic relationship with China, which was very different from that of other European countries.
Sertorio, I would not be surprised if the UK "strong armed' Portugal into lobbying the Chinese government into transferring sovereignty of Macao to Portugal in order to "incriminate" Portugal along with itself. This would likely have been part of a broader UK diplomatic campaign to cement an alliance web with all countries with an interest in the China trade in order to bolster its own position.

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cassowary
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Re: Trade War

Post by cassowary » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:48 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:37 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:33 pm
Sertorio and Neverfail,

The key question is when did sovereignty over Macau passed from China to Portugal?

I refer you to my link again.

Was it in 1557 or was it in 1887 after the Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Amity and Commerce was signed. In 1557, Portugal had to pay rent for Macao. After 1887, they stopped paying rent.

See excerpts:
Finally, in 1557, Portugal got permission to establish a trading settlement in Macau. It took almost 45 years of inch-by-inch negotiation, but the Portuguese finally had a real foothold in southern China.

This foothold was not free, however. Portugal paid an annual sum of 500 taels of silver to the government in Beijing.
So the territory still belonged to China. When you rent your apartment out, it still belongs to you.
By 1887, Britain had become such a powerful regional player (from its base in nearby Hong Kong) that it was able to essentially dictate the terms of an agreement between Portugal and the Qing. The December 1, 1887 "Sino-Portuguese Treaty of Amity and Commerce" forced China to give Portugal a right to "perpetual occupation and government[/u]" of Macau, while also preventing Portugal from selling or trading the area to any other foreign power. Britain insisted on this provision, because its rival France was interested in trading Brazzaville Congo for the Portuguese colonies of Guinea and Macau. Portugal no longer had to pay rent / tribute for Macau.
This was when sovereignty passed from China to Portugal. So Macau was obtained in the wake of British victory in the Opium War when, as Neverfail said,many small powers demanded territorial concessions from China .


Well researched and presented Cass but (underlined) you misrepresented the point I made.

I did not say that the small powers gained territorial concessions but only commercial concessions. Not the same!


Sorry never fail. I misunderstood.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: Trade War

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:44 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:48 pm
Sorry never fail. I misunderstood.
All is well Cass.

The fact that I underlined so much was due to some kind of glitch. I still know not whether it was in my computer or with the website software.

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cassowary
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Re: Trade War

Post by cassowary » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:24 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:48 pm
Sorry never fail. I misunderstood.
All is well Cass.

The fact that I underlined so much was due to some kind of glitch. I still know not whether it was in my computer or with the website software.
Funny. I had the same problem.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: Trade War

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:56 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:24 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:48 pm
Sorry never fail. I misunderstood.
All is well Cass.

The fact that I underlined so much was due to some kind of glitch. I still know not whether it was in my computer or with the website software.
Funny. I had the same problem.
It must have been the website then.

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Doc
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Re: Trade War

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 am

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/06/ ... roduction/

U.S. Factory Production Ramps Up While China Industrial Output Grinds to Slowest Since 2002

U.S. factory production bounced back in May after a four-month slump while the growth of industrial output in China fell to its slowest pace since 2002.

Manufacturing output rose 0.2 percent after a 0.5 percent decline in April, according to data from the Federal Reserve released Friday. Manufacturing makes up around 75 percent of total industrial production and accounts for about 12 percent of the U.S. economy.

Overall industrial production, which adds mining and utilities to factories, increased 0.4 percent in May, better than expected. April’s contraction was revised to an improved 0.4 percent decrease.

Data from China Friday showed that growth in industrial output had slowed to the weakest pace since 2002, indicating that U.S. tariffs are taking a toll on the world’s second-largest economy.

The U.S. factory data is an important sign that the U.S. manufacturing sector is more resilient to trade stress than many economists had forecast. Bolstering the case for a stronger U.S. economy was a separate report Friday on U.S. retail sales that showed better than expected gains in May and revised April and March higher.

Consumer durable goods production rose by 2 percent and overall consumer goods production rose 0.5 percent, reflecting the ongoing strength of the U.S. consumers. Automotive production grew 3.4 percent, partially reversing a series of declines earlier this year. Machinery production rose 1.1 percent. Business equipment production was up 0.2 percent. High tech production, including semiconductors and communication equipment, rose.

Capacity utilization rose by more than expected to 78.1 percent from 77.9 percent.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: Trade War

Post by Milo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:26 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 am
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/06/ ... roduction/

U.S. Factory Production Ramps Up While China Industrial Output Grinds to Slowest Since 2002

U.S. factory production bounced back in May after a four-month slump while the growth of industrial output in China fell to its slowest pace since 2002.

Manufacturing output rose 0.2 percent after a 0.5 percent decline in April, according to data from the Federal Reserve released Friday. Manufacturing makes up around 75 percent of total industrial production and accounts for about 12 percent of the U.S. economy.

Overall industrial production, which adds mining and utilities to factories, increased 0.4 percent in May, better than expected. April’s contraction was revised to an improved 0.4 percent decrease.

Data from China Friday showed that growth in industrial output had slowed to the weakest pace since 2002, indicating that U.S. tariffs are taking a toll on the world’s second-largest economy.

The U.S. factory data is an important sign that the U.S. manufacturing sector is more resilient to trade stress than many economists had forecast. Bolstering the case for a stronger U.S. economy was a separate report Friday on U.S. retail sales that showed better than expected gains in May and revised April and March higher.

Consumer durable goods production rose by 2 percent and overall consumer goods production rose 0.5 percent, reflecting the ongoing strength of the U.S. consumers. Automotive production grew 3.4 percent, partially reversing a series of declines earlier this year. Machinery production rose 1.1 percent. Business equipment production was up 0.2 percent. High tech production, including semiconductors and communication equipment, rose.

Capacity utilization rose by more than expected to 78.1 percent from 77.9 percent.
If this keeps up I might even support Trump!

neverfail
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Re: Trade War

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:27 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:26 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 am
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/06/ ... roduction/

U.S. Factory Production Ramps Up While China Industrial Output Grinds to Slowest Since 2002

U.S. factory production bounced back in May after a four-month slump while the growth of industrial output in China fell to its slowest pace since 2002.

Manufacturing output rose 0.2 percent after a 0.5 percent decline in April, according to data from the Federal Reserve released Friday. Manufacturing makes up around 75 percent of total industrial production and accounts for about 12 percent of the U.S. economy.

Overall industrial production, which adds mining and utilities to factories, increased 0.4 percent in May, better than expected. April’s contraction was revised to an improved 0.4 percent decrease.

Data from China Friday showed that growth in industrial output had slowed to the weakest pace since 2002, indicating that U.S. tariffs are taking a toll on the world’s second-largest economy.

The U.S. factory data is an important sign that the U.S. manufacturing sector is more resilient to trade stress than many economists had forecast. Bolstering the case for a stronger U.S. economy was a separate report Friday on U.S. retail sales that showed better than expected gains in May and revised April and March higher.

Consumer durable goods production rose by 2 percent and overall consumer goods production rose 0.5 percent, reflecting the ongoing strength of the U.S. consumers. Automotive production grew 3.4 percent, partially reversing a series of declines earlier this year. Machinery production rose 1.1 percent. Business equipment production was up 0.2 percent. High tech production, including semiconductors and communication equipment, rose.

Capacity utilization rose by more than expected to 78.1 percent from 77.9 percent.
If this keeps up I might even support Trump!
Say that when the US plunges into recession this coming year.

Despite the exuberant, triumphalist tone of the above essay; as Spengler of the Asia Times publication keeps on reminding us, the US economy is already slowing considerably and has existential weaknesses that are (or should be) a cause for disquiet. Indeed, the entire global economy is currently in a parlous shape.

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cassowary
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Re: Trade War

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:09 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:26 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 am
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/06/ ... roduction/

U.S. Factory Production Ramps Up While China Industrial Output Grinds to Slowest Since 2002

U.S. factory production bounced back in May after a four-month slump while the growth of industrial output in China fell to its slowest pace since 2002.

Manufacturing output rose 0.2 percent after a 0.5 percent decline in April, according to data from the Federal Reserve released Friday. Manufacturing makes up around 75 percent of total industrial production and accounts for about 12 percent of the U.S. economy.

Overall industrial production, which adds mining and utilities to factories, increased 0.4 percent in May, better than expected. April’s contraction was revised to an improved 0.4 percent decrease.

Data from China Friday showed that growth in industrial output had slowed to the weakest pace since 2002, indicating that U.S. tariffs are taking a toll on the world’s second-largest economy.

The U.S. factory data is an important sign that the U.S. manufacturing sector is more resilient to trade stress than many economists had forecast. Bolstering the case for a stronger U.S. economy was a separate report Friday on U.S. retail sales that showed better than expected gains in May and revised April and March higher.

Consumer durable goods production rose by 2 percent and overall consumer goods production rose 0.5 percent, reflecting the ongoing strength of the U.S. consumers. Automotive production grew 3.4 percent, partially reversing a series of declines earlier this year. Machinery production rose 1.1 percent. Business equipment production was up 0.2 percent. High tech production, including semiconductors and communication equipment, rose.

Capacity utilization rose by more than expected to 78.1 percent from 77.9 percent.
If this keeps up I might even support Trump!
All the standard economic textbooks say tariffs are bad for you. Keep this up and I will throw them away.
The Imp :D

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Milo
Posts: 2019
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Re: Trade War

Post by Milo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:18 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:09 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:26 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:19 am
https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2019/06/ ... roduction/

U.S. Factory Production Ramps Up While China Industrial Output Grinds to Slowest Since 2002

U.S. factory production bounced back in May after a four-month slump while the growth of industrial output in China fell to its slowest pace since 2002.

Manufacturing output rose 0.2 percent after a 0.5 percent decline in April, according to data from the Federal Reserve released Friday. Manufacturing makes up around 75 percent of total industrial production and accounts for about 12 percent of the U.S. economy.

Overall industrial production, which adds mining and utilities to factories, increased 0.4 percent in May, better than expected. April’s contraction was revised to an improved 0.4 percent decrease.

Data from China Friday showed that growth in industrial output had slowed to the weakest pace since 2002, indicating that U.S. tariffs are taking a toll on the world’s second-largest economy.

The U.S. factory data is an important sign that the U.S. manufacturing sector is more resilient to trade stress than many economists had forecast. Bolstering the case for a stronger U.S. economy was a separate report Friday on U.S. retail sales that showed better than expected gains in May and revised April and March higher.

Consumer durable goods production rose by 2 percent and overall consumer goods production rose 0.5 percent, reflecting the ongoing strength of the U.S. consumers. Automotive production grew 3.4 percent, partially reversing a series of declines earlier this year. Machinery production rose 1.1 percent. Business equipment production was up 0.2 percent. High tech production, including semiconductors and communication equipment, rose.

Capacity utilization rose by more than expected to 78.1 percent from 77.9 percent.
If this keeps up I might even support Trump!
All the standard economic textbooks say tariffs are bad for you. Keep this up and I will throw them away.
You would know better than me but I have the impression that's largely based on the Great Depression. Perhaps there was more correlation than causation?

I thought I started a thread asking if perhaps tariffs work after all but I can't find it now.

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