The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

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neverfail
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The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Why Ireland is biggest stumbling block in reaching a Brexit deal

UK and EU want to avoid hard border between north and south but can’t see how to do it
Then why bother?

There is a simple though brutal solution to the Northern Ireland border issue: push sovereign independence on the provence regardless of whether the locals want it or not. Excise it out of the United Kingdom. After all, the UK has in the past pushed sovereign independence on dozens of former colonies in Africa, South Asia and the Pacific basin many of whom have since proven themselves unfit to be trusted to shoulder the responsibilities of national sovereignty. So why make an exception for Northern Ireland?

Northern Ireland has a sum total population of but 1.8 million out of a total UK population of over 66 million. Why should concern over the wellbeing and destiny of such a pissant sized appendage be allowed to jeopardise the destiny of the remainder?

In the world of corporate business Northern Ireland would be described with the euphemism of being a "non-performing asset". Polite jargon for a loss-making white elephant. Northern Ireland has for the past 70 years soaked up subsidies from both Westminster and Brussels in return for which this provence contributes absolutely nothing to the economic strength and solvency of neither. So why not get rid of it?

Northern Ireland's Victorian era role of once having been a humming industrial hub of the United Kingdom is now a past glory; a faded memory. Its prosperity was based upon shipbuilding and linen manufacture. The Harland and Wolff shipyard in belfast (where the Titanic was built) is now a maritime museum while these days who ever buys a linen business shirt?

The fact that no former UK government has dispensed with it for the greater benefit of mainland Britain makes me wonder whether Buckingham Palace has had a hand in restraining UK parliamentary governments from giving the place the flick?
Last edited by neverfail on Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sertorio
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:50 pm

The UK cannot ditch Northern Ireland, but Northern Ireland may reunite with the Republic of Ireland, while keeping its autonomous institutions. The only changes would be, exit the Queen, enter the President of the Republic, and change the flag... :D

neverfail
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:04 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:50 pm
The UK cannot ditch Northern Ireland, but Northern Ireland may reunite with the Republic of Ireland, while keeping its autonomous institutions. The only changes would be, exit the Queen, enter the President of the Republic, and change the flag... :D
The only change would be resumption of a sectarian civil war between the IRA and the protestant paramilitaries on a far bigger scale than previously.

Do I want to see that happen? No!

Do I see it as inevitable against my own wishful thinking, Yes!

You clearly do not understand Northern Ireland Sertorio.

https://news.sky.com/story/belfast-a-ci ... t-11317515

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Sertorio
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:18 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:04 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:50 pm
The UK cannot ditch Northern Ireland, but Northern Ireland may reunite with the Republic of Ireland, while keeping its autonomous institutions. The only changes would be, exit the Queen, enter the President of the Republic, and change the flag... :D
The only change would be resumption of a sectarian civil war between the IRA and the protestant paramilitaries on a far bigger scale than previously.

Do I want to see that happen? No!

Do I see it as inevitable against my own wishful thinking, Yes!

You clearly do not understand Northern Ireland Sertorio.

https://news.sky.com/story/belfast-a-ci ... t-11317515
The quoted article is less pessimistic than you think:
Pollsters from Sky Data asked a representative sample of the public in Northern Ireland for their honest assessment of life two decades on and the results show they are more divided than they think.

Fifty-one percent think it is less divided now but 24% feel it is more divided and 23% never expect to see power-sharing government restored.
For what I have been able to read about Ireland, in various European papers, I do not think that the likelihood of a resumption of the sectarian war is very large. And the wish to stay in the EU may convince the loyalist Northern Irish that joining the Republic may be the least bad solution.

neverfail
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by neverfail » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:38 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:18 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:04 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:50 pm
The UK cannot ditch Northern Ireland, but Northern Ireland may reunite with the Republic of Ireland, while keeping its autonomous institutions. The only changes would be, exit the Queen, enter the President of the Republic, and change the flag... :D
The only change would be resumption of a sectarian civil war between the IRA and the protestant paramilitaries on a far bigger scale than previously.

Do I want to see that happen? No!

Do I see it as inevitable against my own wishful thinking, Yes!

You clearly do not understand Northern Ireland Sertorio.

https://news.sky.com/story/belfast-a-ci ... t-11317515
The quoted article is less pessimistic than you think:
Pollsters from Sky Data asked a representative sample of the public in Northern Ireland for their honest assessment of life two decades on and the results show they are more divided than they think.

Fifty-one percent think it is less divided now but 24% feel it is more divided and 23% never expect to see power-sharing government restored.
For what I have been able to read about Ireland, in various European papers, I do not think that the likelihood of a resumption of the sectarian war is very large. And the wish to stay in the EU may convince the loyalist Northern Irish that joining the Republic may be the least bad solution.
What makes you believe that the Republic of Ireland even wants Northern Ireland and all of its problems?

In all of the decades I can recall no Irish government has ever seriously approached the UK government to take this fractious province off their hands. That surely speaks for itself! The likely (unstated) reason, the dark, dirty secret they do not want to publically own up to; is that the small and fragile economy of the Republic of Ireland would be crushed to death by the sheer cost of trying to sustain this unproductive provence. No! To sustain a place the size of Northern Ireland from suffering total economic collapse you need something a lot larger - like the tax base of the UK.

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Sertorio
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by Sertorio » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:00 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:38 pm

In all of the decades I can recall no Irish government has ever seriously approached the UK government to take this fractious province off their hands. That surely speaks for itself! The likely (unstated) reason, the dark, dirty secret they do not want to publically own up to; is that the small and fragile economy of the Republic of Ireland would be crushed to death by the sheer cost of trying to sustain this unproductive provence. No! To sustain a place the size of Northern Ireland from suffering total economic collapse you need something a lot larger - like the tax base of the UK.
Why would a 2 million people region have more problems being prosperous than a 0.5 million country like Luxemburg?...

neverfail
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by neverfail » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:24 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:00 am
Why would a 2 million people region have more problems being prosperous than a 0.5 million country like Luxemburg?...
One of life's great mysteries?

What helps Luxembourg is that it is not a society divided along sectarian/confessional lines and constantly at war with itself.

Northern Ireland = approx. 60% protestant; 40% Catholic.

Luxembourg = 70% Catholic and negligible % protestant.

Considering that Luxembourg is by far the more affluent of the two should amply demonstrates two things:

1. that having a Catholic heritage does not debar a country from being prosperous.

and

2. that having a preponderance of protestants does not necessarily make a country wealthy, well governed and happy.

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Milo
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by Milo » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:06 pm

All the posts so far seem to frame this as some sort of topic down situation, when in fact it is the result of the democratic will of the people of Ireland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Ireland

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Ir ... eferendums

I think Westminster would love to get rid of NI but they insist on staying.

neverfail
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Re: The UK should ditch Northern Ireland?

Post by neverfail » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:35 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:06 pm
All the posts so far seem to frame this as some sort of topic down situation, when in fact it is the result of the democratic will of the people of Ireland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_Ireland

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Ir ... eferendums

I think Westminster would love to get rid of NI but they insist on staying.
Yep, the people of both parts of Ireland are not as foolish as the Englishmen's Irish jokes of yore make them out to be.

The southern Irish must have realised realise that Ulster would both send their republic broke and rebellion by the protestant paramilitaries wouldr lacerate the whole island with armed conflict. Who wants that? As for the majority in Ulster, they obviously understand where their province's meal tickets come from (which coincidentally is also why, against the voting trend in England, they voted en-masse AGAINST Brexit).

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