Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

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cassowary
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by cassowary » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:35 pm
.....................................................................................................

Many years ago a workplace colleague of mine, an Indonesian immigrant who had been trained in his profession in Germany, told me that had he returned to Indonesia "I could now be making a lot more money than I am here." That surprised me as Indonesia does not have a reputation for being a land of high wage and salary incomes. My colleague then described how Indonesian friends who had been trained in the same profession in Germany (as town planners) and then returned to their home country regularly shake down Chinese businessmen keen to build shopping malls and the like. They find all kinds of excuses to indefinitely postpone until the entrepreneur gets the message and is forthcoming with the bribe. Satisfied with the payment the same crooked officials them move heaven and earth to bet the businessman's development plans approved.

My Indo workmate then remarked "I could not do that. I would go home feeling that the money was not rightfully mine." This fellow was an Indonesian with a conscience who preferred to live off his (lesser) Australian salary then sleep with a good conscience at night that follow in the footsteps of his Indonesian fellow trainees and grow rich from graft.

I am well aware that in many countries abroad (not just in Indonesia) the payment of bribe money is the key to survival in business. In the case of a shonky restaurateur who brobes a health inspector in order to get around the health and safety rules; a crooked public official like that is arguably an even bigger menace to society than the crooked businessmen offering the graft.
This anecdote confirms what I told you. The more rules and regulations there are, the more opportunity for corruption by government bureaucrats shaking down the entrepreneur. So that is why we do not want a government that interferes in the free market. But it is leftist parties that believe that business needs to be disciplined. oBUMa came with lots of new regulations. Trump did the reverse and cut regulations. You saw the effects - the economy boomed.

In a Socialist government like Venezuela, the government is so far to the left that it controlled nearly every corner of the economy. That is how Hugo Chavez ended up a billionaire. PInochet took only $18 million - relatively small sum which in my opinion was well deserved considering the service he did for his country.

The left is anti-capitalist. So they have a malign view of capitalism. But in reality, capitalism, despite its limitations, is beneficial to humanity.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:16 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am
...oBUMa came with lots of new regulations. Trump did the reverse and cut regulations. You saw the effects - the economy boomed...
Have you looked at the US economy lately?...

neverfail
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:32 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:35 pm
.....................................................................................................

Many years ago a workplace colleague of mine, an Indonesian immigrant who had been trained in his profession in Germany, told me that had he returned to Indonesia "I could now be making a lot more money than I am here." That surprised me as Indonesia does not have a reputation for being a land of high wage and salary incomes. My colleague then described how Indonesian friends who had been trained in the same profession in Germany (as town planners) and then returned to their home country regularly shake down Chinese businessmen keen to build shopping malls and the like. They find all kinds of excuses to indefinitely postpone until the entrepreneur gets the message and is forthcoming with the bribe. Satisfied with the payment the same crooked officials them move heaven and earth to bet the businessman's development plans approved.

My Indo workmate then remarked "I could not do that. I would go home feeling that the money was not rightfully mine." This fellow was an Indonesian with a conscience who preferred to live off his (lesser) Australian salary then sleep with a good conscience at night that follow in the footsteps of his Indonesian fellow trainees and grow rich from graft.

I am well aware that in many countries abroad (not just in Indonesia) the payment of bribe money is the key to survival in business. In the case of a shonky restaurateur who brobes a health inspector in order to get around the health and safety rules; a crooked public official like that is arguably an even bigger menace to society than the crooked businessmen offering the graft.
This anecdote confirms what I told you. The more rules and regulations there are, the more opportunity for corruption by government bureaucrats shaking down the entrepreneur.
It means nothing of the sort Cassowary - and unless you are dumber than you make yourself to be then I can only assume that you are here being ingenuous for the sake of advocating.advocating your pet doctrine. It is normal anywhere that before a building project is permitted to go ahead, approval must be sought from the appropriate authorities, usually the local city or regional council. There would be just as many rules and regulations, if not more, governing building projects here in Australia as in Indonesia. The difference is that down here the town planners are paid a decent living salary so that both removes temptation to augment inadequate incomes by resorting to graft - and simultaneously gives them an incentive to perform their public duties honestly and well for they have something to lose if caught accepting bribes and sacked.

Rules and regulations are not put in place to make life more irksome for budding entrepreneurs. They are there to protect the public interest.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:24 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am
PInochet took only $18 million - relatively small sum which in my opinion was well deserved considering the service he did for his country.
When you pretend that there are circumstances under which a dictator deserves to steal $18 million, you undermine your own argument.
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neverfail
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:42 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am
PInochet took only $18 million - relatively small sum which in my opinion was well deserved considering the service he did for his country.
When you pretend that there are circumstances under which a dictator deserves to steal $18 million, you undermine your own argument.
Yes, it was one of the (I am sure) many ways in which Pinochet placed himself ABOVE the law.

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cassowary
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by cassowary » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:24 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 am
PInochet took only $18 million - relatively small sum which in my opinion was well deserved considering the service he did for his country.
When you pretend that there are circumstances under which a dictator deserves to steal $18 million, you undermine your own argument.
Perhaps. But we live in the real world where the Politicians get rich one way or another. Corruption is rampant in Latin America as in other Third World countries. Given the billions stolen by leftist dictators like Castro and Chavez, $18 million seems like a paltry sum.

I am afraid that Pinochet is the best the Latins have produced. Under him, he prevented his country from becoming another Venezuela or Cuba. He restored prosperity through capitalism and democracy by honourably abiding by his referendum. For that we should be grateful.

His sin is far outweighed by the good he did.
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by neverfail » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:56 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am

I am afraid that Pinochet is the best the Latins have produced. Under him, he prevented his country from becoming another Venezuela or Cuba. He restored prosperity through capitalism and democracy by honourably abiding by his referendum.
These days I am not so inclined to judge Pinochet harshly. The democratic institutions of Chile were under attack from Allende and supporters who sheltered behind those hallowed institutions while striving to replace then with a Marxist state. Allende and following had no notable respect for the rule of law either. That Pinochet and fellow military brass acted against the provisions of the then Chilean constitution likely reflects the environment of the breakdown of law and order in which they were immersed.

Yet I still remain firm in my conviction that two wrongs do not make a right.

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cassowary
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Re: Russian Propaganda, no More no Less

Post by cassowary » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:00 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:56 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:49 am

I am afraid that Pinochet is the best the Latins have produced. Under him, he prevented his country from becoming another Venezuela or Cuba. He restored prosperity through capitalism and democracy by honourably abiding by his referendum.
These days I am not so inclined to judge Pinochet harshly. The democratic institutions of Chile were under attack from Allende and supporters who sheltered behind those hallowed institutions while striving to replace then with a Marxist state. Allende and following had no notable respect for the rule of law either. That Pinochet and fellow military brass acted against the provisions of the then Chilean constitution likely reflects the environment of the breakdown of law and order in which they were immersed.

Yet I still remain firm in my conviction that two wrongs do not make a right.
I agree neverfail.
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