US Foreign Policy

Discussion of current events
neverfail
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by neverfail » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:04 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:53 pm
"Iran: Europe must offset consequences of US sanctions"
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News ... spx/252009

It appears that EU types are being instructed by Iranian honchos to disregard US sanctions in favor of sucking up to Persian economic interests.
Jim: everyone and his pet dog trades with Iran:

China: https://www.jpost.com/International/Chi ... ons-564371

Turkey: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran ... SKBN1KT210

India: https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ec ... 747048.ece

...among others.

We Australians should ignore Trump and resume trading with the Islamic Republic as well. It used to be a very good customer for our exportable farm produce and could become one again.

The point is that no one apart from the Americans seems to have this "bug" about Iran: and we all know that the USA is nothing other than the gigantic "tail" being wagged and manipulated by the Jewish "dog" on behalf of the State of Israel.

Jim the Moron
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Jim the Moron » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:42 pm

Yep. All sorts of rif-raf support trade with Islamic terrorist-sponsoring Iran, even some Americans (most notably John Kerry). Fortunately, most Americans share the viewpoint of most Israelis that the honchos in charge at Tehran are a bunch of primitive Muslim savages.

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:46 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:42 pm
Yep. All sorts of rif-raf support trade with Islamic terrorist-sponsoring Iran, even some Americans (most notably John Kerry). Fortunately, most Americans share the viewpoint of most Israelis that the honchos in charge at Tehran are a bunch of primitive Muslim savages.
The Persian civilization is at least as old as the Jewish one, and Islam has only changed Persia on the surface. Treated in a civilized way, Iran would be a peaceful country only interested in improving the standard of living of its people. Iran may object to Palestine having been (re)occupied by Jews, but that alone wouldn't drive Iran to any aggressive posture in respect of Israel. If Palestinians are ever granted their own sovereign state in the West Bank and Gaza, I think that Iran would be capable of recognizing Israel's right to exist. But compromise is a concept unknown to both Americans and Israelis...

neverfail
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by neverfail » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:05 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:46 am
Iran may object to Palestine having been (re)occupied by Jews, but that alone wouldn't drive Iran to any aggressive posture in respect of Israel. If Palestinians are ever granted their own sovereign state in the West Bank and Gaza, I think that Iran would be capable of recognizing Israel's right to exist. But compromise is a concept unknown to both Americans and Israelis...
Sertorio,

Persian civilisation is quite alien to the Arabic one, and vice versa. Likewise, Palestinian Arabs are mainly Sunni (and those who are not are Christian) whilst Iranians Muslims are Shia. So given that lack of any apparent basis for empathy between the two; can you explain why the crowd in Tehran would care two hoots about the fate of the Palestinians?

Jim the Moron
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:15 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:05 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:46 am
Iran may object to Palestine having been (re)occupied by Jews, but that alone wouldn't drive Iran to any aggressive posture in respect of Israel. If Palestinians are ever granted their own sovereign state in the West Bank and Gaza, I think that Iran would be capable of recognizing Israel's right to exist. But compromise is a concept unknown to both Americans and Israelis...
Sertorio,

Persian civilisation is quite alien to the Arabic one, and vice versa. Likewise, Palestinian Arabs are mainly Sunni (and those who are not are Christian) whilst Iranians Muslims are Shia. So given that lack of any apparent basis for empathy between the two; can you explain why the crowd in Tehran would care two hoots about the fate of the Palestinians?
Honchos in Tehran (as contrasted to the average Iranian citizen) could "care two hoots about the fate of the Palestinians." They view Arabs, regardless of stripe, as natural Muslim allies in their hatred of Israel.

"Iran would be capable of recognizing Israel's right to exist." Yes. After all, it is the land of Cyrus II, the greatest of all Persians. But what would constitute compromise with a regime that calls for your destruction?

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Sertorio
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Sertorio » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:43 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:05 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:46 am
Iran may object to Palestine having been (re)occupied by Jews, but that alone wouldn't drive Iran to any aggressive posture in respect of Israel. If Palestinians are ever granted their own sovereign state in the West Bank and Gaza, I think that Iran would be capable of recognizing Israel's right to exist. But compromise is a concept unknown to both Americans and Israelis...
Sertorio,

Persian civilisation is quite alien to the Arabic one, and vice versa. Likewise, Palestinian Arabs are mainly Sunni (and those who are not are Christian) whilst Iranians Muslims are Shia. So given that lack of any apparent basis for empathy between the two; can you explain why the crowd in Tehran would care two hoots about the fate of the Palestinians?
I would suggest two answers:

1. Iran is against Israel because Israel is the greatest friend of Iran's greatest enemy. Attacking Israel, Iran is in fact attacking and trying to weaken the US position in the ME.

2. Iran may be more interested in the fate of Jerusalem than in the fate of Palestinians.

If Israel was willing to talk directly to Iran, it might find that a solution could be found without difficulty. But as long as Israel succeeds in manipulating the US, that's not necessary.

Jim the Moron
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:00 am

No.

1. "Iran is against Israel" because of deep-set anti-Semitism that taints all of Iran's reactionary Islamist leadership.

2. Why should Iran be "interested in the fate of Jerusalem?"

Why should the Israelis "talk directly" with folks insisting on the destruction of their nation?

neverfail
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Re: "judge them by what they do and not by what they say."

Post by neverfail » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:33 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:00 am
No.

1. "Iran is against Israel" because of deep-set anti-Semitism that taints all of Iran's reactionary Islamist leadership.
Well, guess what? Iran, unlike its Arab neighbours still has a resident Jewish community.

:lol: Also astonishing is that Israel and Iran (naughty boys) have been doing a lot of business with one another under the counter. :) :
Even though the new revolutionary government promoted heated anti-Israeli sentiments among its followers, many commercial ties were still maintained even after the revolution. After the revolution, selling Iranian oil was extremely difficult due to sanctions. Marc Rich, an Israeli-Swiss businessman, sent his Glencore executives to Tehran and established major commercial ties with the new government. Rich was the only businessman able to export Iranian oil from 1979 to 1995. He claimed in his biography that he exported Iranian oil to Israel through a secret pipeline between the two countries. He further claimed that both countries were aware of this transaction. Rich obtained military weapons for Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.[89][90] On many occasions Rich helped Mossad agents in Iran. For his actions on breaking the US sanctions, US government found Marc Rich guilty and sentenced him. However Rich was later pardoned by Bill Clinton in his last day in office. Former Mossad heads Avner Azoulay and Shabtai Shavit personally wrote to Clinton to argue for his pardon.[91][92] Furthermore, many other commercial ties still exist between Iran and Israel. Israel imports most of its pistachio from Iran and this matter has angered California pistachio producers and US government on many occasions.[93][94][95][96] In 2011 Israeli company Ofer Brothers Group was on the list of companies that broke Iranian sanctions. [97] Ynet reported that Israeli-Iranian trade, conducted covertly and illegally by dozens of Israeli companies, totals tens of millions of dollars a year. Much of this trade is conducted through a third country. Israel supplies Iran with fertilizer, irrigation pipes, hormones for milk production, seeds, and fruit; Iran, meanwhile, provides Israel with marble, cashews, and pistachios. Based on the same report in November 2000, the Iranian government asked an Israeli company, which built Tehran's sewage pipes 30 years earlier, to visit the country for renovations. Shortly afterwards, the assistant director-general of Iran's Ministry of Agriculture visited Israel secretly and stayed at the Tel Aviv Hilton Hotel. He expressed an interest in purchasing irrigation pipes, pesticides and fertilizers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... 5_to_1979)
2. Why should Iran be "interested in the fate of Jerusalem?"
Jerusalem is the holy city to Muslims as it is to Jews and Christians alike. Being an agnostic, however, you might find the concept of holiness difficult to grasp.
Why should the Israelis "talk directly" with folks insisting on the destruction of their nation?
In their own best interests. To turn a potential enemy into a friend and potential ally, you nong!

Jim the Moron
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Re: "judge them by what they do and not by what they say."

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:48 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:33 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:00 am
No.

1. "Iran is against Israel" because of deep-set anti-Semitism that taints all of Iran's reactionary Islamist leadership.
Well, guess what? Iran, unlike its Arab neighbours still has a resident Jewish community.

:lol: Also astonishing is that Israel and Iran (naughty boys) have been doing a lot of business with one another under the counter. :) :
Even though the new revolutionary government promoted heated anti-Israeli sentiments among its followers, many commercial ties were still maintained even after the revolution. After the revolution, selling Iranian oil was extremely difficult due to sanctions. Marc Rich, an Israeli-Swiss businessman, sent his Glencore executives to Tehran and established major commercial ties with the new government. Rich was the only businessman able to export Iranian oil from 1979 to 1995. He claimed in his biography that he exported Iranian oil to Israel through a secret pipeline between the two countries. He further claimed that both countries were aware of this transaction. Rich obtained military weapons for Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.[89][90] On many occasions Rich helped Mossad agents in Iran. For his actions on breaking the US sanctions, US government found Marc Rich guilty and sentenced him. However Rich was later pardoned by Bill Clinton in his last day in office. Former Mossad heads Avner Azoulay and Shabtai Shavit personally wrote to Clinton to argue for his pardon.[91][92] Furthermore, many other commercial ties still exist between Iran and Israel. Israel imports most of its pistachio from Iran and this matter has angered California pistachio producers and US government on many occasions.[93][94][95][96] In 2011 Israeli company Ofer Brothers Group was on the list of companies that broke Iranian sanctions. [97] Ynet reported that Israeli-Iranian trade, conducted covertly and illegally by dozens of Israeli companies, totals tens of millions of dollars a year. Much of this trade is conducted through a third country. Israel supplies Iran with fertilizer, irrigation pipes, hormones for milk production, seeds, and fruit; Iran, meanwhile, provides Israel with marble, cashews, and pistachios. Based on the same report in November 2000, the Iranian government asked an Israeli company, which built Tehran's sewage pipes 30 years earlier, to visit the country for renovations. Shortly afterwards, the assistant director-general of Iran's Ministry of Agriculture visited Israel secretly and stayed at the Tel Aviv Hilton Hotel. He expressed an interest in purchasing irrigation pipes, pesticides and fertilizers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... 5_to_1979)
2. Why should Iran be "interested in the fate of Jerusalem?"
Jerusalem is the holy city to Muslims as it is to Jews and Christians alike. Being an agnostic, however, you might find the concept of holiness difficult to grasp.
Why should the Israelis "talk directly" with folks insisting on the destruction of their nation?


In their own best interests. To turn a potential enemy into a friend and potential ally, you nong!
"Iran, unlike its Arab neighbours still has a resident Jewish community." Yep. Even as recently as 1980 there were about 80,000 Jews in Iran. Now there are about 8,000. Even neverfail should be able to discern a trend in that.

I'm please to acknowledge n'fail's link to a wiki item that shows that about 18 years ago Iran regularly supplied Israel with marble and nuts. Hope they're still at it.

I suppose that if Iranian leadership would cease its support for terrorist activities on Israel's borders and its calls for the destruction of Israel, Israeli authorities might then see reason for direct talks.

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Doc
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Re: US Foreign Policy

Post by Doc » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:14 pm

https://www.breitbart.com/national-secu ... sanctions/
Claim: Former Obama Officials Advising Europe to Evade Iran Sanctions
In this Jan. 16, 2016 file-pool photo, Secretary of State John Kerry talks with Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif in Vienna, after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verified that Iran has met all conditions under the nuclear deal. Donald Trump isn’t going to rip up the Iran nuclear …
Kevin Lamarque/Pool via AP, File
15 Sep 20185108
Richard Goldberg, the Republican political operative who helped coordinate opposition to the Iran deal on Capitol Hill, claimed Saturday evening that former Obama administration officials were trying to devise ways to help Europe evade sanctions on Iran.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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