Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

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cassowary
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by cassowary » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm

Milo wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:21 am
So it's "ingenious" to use the tax code to punish entire regions that don't agree with your politics? I think it's petty and rather stupid.

Of course it's not true, so not even wrong.
When the Republicans crafted the tax reform bill, they had to ensure the budget deficit don't increase by more than $1.5 trillion over ten years. This means they must raise revenue somewhere. Better to raise it from the blue states than red states. They can't punish their voters, right?

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cassowary
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by cassowary » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:20 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:25 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:50 am
Generally speaking, blue states are richer than red states. s.

Mississippi is supposed to be richer than New York? Somehow I think that you are giving vent to romantic wishful thinking.
I was under the impression that Missiissipi is a red state. New york is a blue state. So NY is richer.

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Milo
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Milo » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:44 pm

cassowary wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm
Milo wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:21 am
So it's "ingenious" to use the tax code to punish entire regions that don't agree with your politics? I think it's petty and rather stupid.

Of course it's not true, so not even wrong.
When the Republicans crafted the tax reform bill, they had to ensure the budget deficit don't increase by more than $1.5 trillion over ten years. This means they must raise revenue somewhere. Better to raise it from the blue states than red states. They can't punish their voters, right?
How is that ingenious?

neverfail
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:49 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:47 am
neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:25 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:50 am
Generally speaking, blue states are richer than red states. s.
Mississippi is supposed to be richer than New York? Somehow I think that you are giving vent to romantic wishful thinking.
Mississippi is a solidly red state. Blue states include California, New York, Massachusetts, etc.
Sorry. I got the two mixed up. :oops:

neverfail
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by neverfail » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:09 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm

When the Republicans crafted the tax reform bill, they had to ensure the budget deficit don't increase by more than $1.5 trillion over ten years. This means they must raise revenue somewhere. Better to raise it from the blue states than red states. They can't punish their voters, right?
But as the blue states are richer that means they must be more efficient generators of wealth than the red states. Why penalise the efficient? For years you have been telling me that you are opposed to that cass? Am I to believe that you have now turned against your own proclaimed guiding principle? :o
.......................................................................................................................

In any case, I don't believe that the Republicans in Congress care a shit about the budget deficit. What they would be more concerned about is something much closer to home.

Members of the US House of Representatives have to stand for election once every two years. Mid term congressional elections are due next year. Being able to take home a swag of tax breaks to their constituents would do no harm in recommending them for re-election.

Getting a windfall of tax concessions from Uncle Sam makes voters happy. Happy voters are strongly inclined to support the status-quo.

Cass, this is nothing but a grubby boondoggle framed to benefit the initiators; not even for the supposed beneficiaries. So please stop trying to pretend they did it in the national interest.

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Doc
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:57 am

Milo wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:21 am
So it's "ingenious" to use the tax code to punish entire regions that don't agree with your politics? I think it's petty and rather stupid.

Of course it's not true, so not even wrong.
Exactly !!! Why should citizens in low tax states subsidize citizens of high tax state's?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:19 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:59 am
The spending needs of different states, cities, counties and regions are very unequal as is their means to raise revenue. SALT, I would suggest, has merely been an acknowledgement at your Federal level of government that this is so and an attempt to give the states etc with the greater needs an even break.
I would say instead that the spending wants are very unequal, which is not the same thing. But the SALT deduction dates back to the beginning of the federal income tax, and I believe it's a vestigial nod to federalism, so killing it might be considered imprudent from a longer term conservative perspective.
This tax plan looks to me like nothing other than a gigantic boondoggle to reward regions that supported Trump while penalising the ones that did not. It makes not one single iota of macroeconomic sense let alone social equity and I foresee no good coming from it.
Well, lowering the corporate tax is actually a good idea. To be honest I'd have killed it altogether. The rest of it, yeah, probably as you say.
But as the blue states are richer that means they must be more efficient generators of wealth than the red states. Why penalise the efficient?
Well, wealthier as a result of greater population density or in some cases (e.g., Hawaii, Maryland) from federal spending. That's not exactly "efficiency".
In any case, I don't believe that the Republicans in Congress care a shit about the budget deficit. What they would be more concerned about is something much closer to home.
Indeed. I mean, no one in Washington gives a shit about deficits or the national debt, but at least Democrats aren't hypocritical about it.
Members of the US House of Representatives have to stand for election once every two years. Mid term congressional elections are due next year. Being able to take home a swag of tax breaks to their constituents would do no harm in recommending them for re-election. Getting a windfall of tax concessions from Uncle Sam makes voters happy. Happy voters are strongly inclined to support the status-quo.
I agree that this is the more reasonable explanation than a sudden outbreak of principles. Doubly so in that without this "win" House Republicans will face re-election having controlled every branch of the federal government for two years with nothing whatsoever to show for it.
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Doc
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:26 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:09 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:16 pm

When the Republicans crafted the tax reform bill, they had to ensure the budget deficit don't increase by more than $1.5 trillion over ten years. This means they must raise revenue somewhere. Better to raise it from the blue states than red states. They can't punish their voters, right?
But as the blue states are richer that means they must be more efficient generators of wealth than the red states. Why penalise the efficient? For years you have been telling me that you are opposed to that cass? Am I to believe that you have now turned against your own proclaimed guiding principle? :o
.......................................................................................................................

In any case, I don't believe that the Republicans in Congress care a shit about the budget deficit. What they would be more concerned about is something much closer to home.

Members of the US House of Representatives have to stand for election once every two years. Mid term congressional elections are due next year. Being able to take home a swag of tax breaks to their constituents would do no harm in recommending them for re-election.

Getting a windfall of tax concessions from Uncle Sam makes voters happy. Happy voters are strongly inclined to support the status-quo.

Cass, this is nothing but a grubby boondoggle framed to benefit the initiators; not even for the supposed beneficiaries. So please stop trying to pretend they did it in the national interest.
Blue states have every right to cut thier state taxes.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Milo » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:01 pm

As a matter of fact it is greatly disputed whether this will cut taxes for anyone except the rich and many think it will create huge deficits.

So, again, likely not even wrong.

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Doc
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Re: Tax plan raises taxes on liberal states and lowers them for the rest.

Post by Doc » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:37 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:01 pm
As a matter of fact it is greatly disputed whether this will cut taxes for anyone except the rich and many think it will create huge deficits.

So, again, likely not even wrong.
It may be "Greatly Disputed" but that is coming from these folks. http://www.davosman.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=552#p8439

As a rule: " Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution" -- Albert Einstein
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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