Make Hong Kong Great Again

Discussion of current events
neverfail
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:49 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
But it is not like that, sertorio.

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Milo
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by Milo » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:58 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:49 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
But it is not like that, sertorio.
Inherent jurisdiction is a doctrine of the English common law that a superior court has the jurisdiction to hear any matter that comes before it, unless a statute or rule limits that authority or grants exclusive jurisdiction to some other court or tribunal. The term is also used when a governmental institution derives its jurisdiction from a fundamental governing instrument such as a constitution. In the English case of Bremer Vulkan Schiffbau und Maschinenfabrik v. South India Shipping Corporation Ltd, Lord Diplock described the court's inherent jurisdiction as a general power to control its own procedure so as to prevent its being used to achieve injustice.

Inherent jurisdiction appears to apply to an almost limitless set of circumstances. There are four general categories for use of the court's inherent jurisdiction:

to ensure convenience and fairness in legal proceedings;
to prevent steps being taken that would render judicial proceedings inefficacious;
to prevent abuses of process;
to act in aid of superior courts and in aid or control of inferior courts and tribunals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inherent_jurisdiction

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cassowary
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:29 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
Sounds like a good idea.
The Imp :D

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Doc
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:48 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:29 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
Sounds like a good idea.
I think that is the way it is right now before anything changes. Apparently the representative for the Chinese government in Hong Kong who recommended the extradition law has asked that the idea be dropped. He said he was not expecting the reaction is caused. Fingers crossed.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:52 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:29 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
Sounds like a good idea.
I do too - in the same way I have no objections to motherhood :) . Unfortunately in the PRC, where the legal system is for the convenience of the ruling party - any impartial justice it dispenses is of secondary importance; they define "crime" rather differently to the way we do.

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Sertorio
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:52 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:29 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
Sounds like a good idea.
I do too - in the same way I have no objections to motherhood :) . Unfortunately in the PRC, where the legal system is for the convenience of the ruling party - any impartial justice it dispenses is of secondary importance; they define "crime" rather differently to the way we do.
My suggestion had nothing to do with the quality or impartiality of the Chinese judicial system. No matter how bad it is, it is only their business if it applies only to crimes committed in China. The American judicial system is pretty awful too, but as long as it is applied only to Americans in the US, it is none of my business.

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cassowary
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by cassowary » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:50 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:10 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:52 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:29 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:17 am
If extradition to China is limited to people accused of a crime committed in China, and excludes residents of Hong Kong - who should instead be tried in Hong Kong -, maybe it should be considered acceptable.
Sounds like a good idea.
I do too - in the same way I have no objections to motherhood :) . Unfortunately in the PRC, where the legal system is for the convenience of the ruling party - any impartial justice it dispenses is of secondary importance; they define "crime" rather differently to the way we do.
My suggestion had nothing to do with the quality or impartiality of the Chinese judicial system. No matter how bad it is, it is only their business if it applies only to crimes committed in China. The American judicial system is pretty awful too, but as long as it is applied only to Americans in the US, it is none of my business.
Um, actually, the US justice system is better than Portugal's. See the Rule of Law Index 2019

The US is ranked 20th and Portugal is ranked 22nd best. Australia is ranked 11th. Congratulations, neverfail.

Hong Kong is 16th and China is an abysmal 82. No wonder the Hongkees don't want to be extradited and tried in China.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by Sertorio » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:39 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:50 am

Um, actually, the US justice system is better than Portugal's. See the Rule of Law Index 2019

The US is ranked 20th and Portugal is ranked 22nd best. Australia is ranked 11th. Congratulations, neverfail.
We only have to see the cases of innocent people in the US being condemned to long sentences, and being freed only many years after their sentence; people condemned to death who are innocent; differences in sentencing of people with different racial background; the incredibly long sentences passed on people who often have committed minor crimes, to realize how bad the judiciary is in the US. Nothing like that happens in Portugal, so I fail to see how the US is ranked better than Portugal.

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Sertorio
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by Sertorio » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:23 am

Talking about rankings, I came accross one which some of you may find interesting:

Image

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cassowary
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Re: Make Hong Kong Great Again

Post by cassowary » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:39 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:39 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:50 am

Um, actually, the US justice system is better than Portugal's. See the Rule of Law Index 2019

The US is ranked 20th and Portugal is ranked 22nd best. Australia is ranked 11th. Congratulations, neverfail.
We only have to see the cases of innocent people in the US being condemned to long sentences, and being freed only many years after their sentence; people condemned to death who are innocent; differences in sentencing of people with different racial background; the incredibly long sentences passed on people who often have committed minor crimes, to realize how bad the judiciary is in the US. Nothing like that happens in Portugal, so I fail to see how the US is ranked better than Portugal.
Obviously, those are exceptional rare cases. Otherwise the US won't be ranked higher than Portugal.
The Imp :D

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