The Freeing of Europe

Discussion of current events
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cassowary
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by cassowary » Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am

Alexis wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 1:46 am


There is wide consensus in Europe against Iran having nuclear weapons. Less on the fact itself - Europeans know Teheran is a rational actor and are largely free of the peculiar US deep-seated anti-Iranian obsession - than on the risk further nuclear proliferation would be triggered. Especially in Saudi Arabia, which is not as rational nor as stable as Iran is. You may remember that it was not Iranians taking down the WTC on 9/11.
I don't think Iran is a rational actor. They are the Shiite version of ISIS. They wish for Islam to dominate the world except that their version of Islam is the Shiite version. That is why their priority is not the welfare of their people. Instead, they
spend their oil money, not on giving their people a better life, but in supporting regional wars - from Houthis to Hizbollah. They seek a regional empire. I don't consider this to be rational.

If the Americans have an anti-Iran obsession, it's because of the frequent demonstrations in Iran of crowds chanting, "death to America". Maybe you will also be anti-Iran if they are chanting "Death to France."

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cassowary
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Re: The Freeing of Europe

Post by cassowary » Sun May 13, 2018 2:57 am

I don't know if it in intentional, but America and the EU are playing the "good cop, bad cop" routine. Trump is wielding a big stick by imposing sanctions. EU wants to stick to the agreement, thereby giving Iran an important trading partner. Iran has responded by saying that it will stick to the agreement.

So nothing has changed. Iran is not building nuclear weapons, or so it claims - same as before Trump withdrew from the agreement. Iran desperately wants trade and especially to sell its oil. Let's see if this approach can moderate the Iranian behavior. Maybe it will rein in its proxy armies in Yemen, Syria, and Lebanon. The last thing it wants is for the EU to join the US in tearing up the agreement and imposing sanctions.

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Sertorio
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Re: The Freeing of Europe

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 13, 2018 3:39 am

armchair_pundit wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 12:49 am
stupid is as stupid does, they say.

Consider me stupid for not believing Iran will stop what it has started, no matter what they say, or play 3 card monte with "inspections". i guess then consider me double stupid for considering that Iran has at least a few untested nuclear weapons now, either from their own efforts, or from purchasing/stealing them.

Perhaps you are the one sucking on the propaganda hose of unrequited belief in the benevolence of the Iranian theocracy, to be diplomatic.

By the way, resorting to ad hominems reflects poorly on any point you may be trying to make.

BTW, they were many deals with the DPRK, but, well, you know those benevolent dictatorships rarely, if ever actually keep a deal they make...
You have no facts to support your assumptions. Just a gut feeling that something smells bad... The typical Trump approach to international relations. Hopefully Europe will definitely distance itself from US dumbness and take the lead in making the world a more peaceful place. Unfortunately my faith in Macron and Merkel's capabilities is next to nill...

Jim the Moron
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Re: The Freeing of Europe

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun May 13, 2018 4:04 am

You are quite correct, Sertorio, for not having "faith in Macron and Merkel's capabilities." They are, as we speak, waving the white flag in the face of invading Islam. And you are obviously correct in viewing with suspicion US foreign policy (look at recent history). Things are going to hell in the proverbial handbasket.

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Doc
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by Doc » Sun May 13, 2018 1:31 pm

Alexis wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 2:31 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:38 am
Europe will pay for the Iran deal. Literally. The Iranians are already saying since the US is no longer paying them someone from Europe is going to have to step up and pay. I am sure Marcon and Merkel can just place more austerity measures on Southern Europe to pay for it.
Actually, what the Iranians are asking is for Europeans to continue applying the agreement, which means continuing to trade with them. No payment is involved, save Iranian payment for European products and European payment for Iranian energy.

On the other hand, the US are demanding all foreign companies, including European ones, to stop trading with Iran just as the US will stop. This, on penalty of financial sanctions based on US extra-territorial legislation, which is US laws meant to order behaviour by non-Americans outside of US territory.

What is discussed now in Europe is how to protect European companies from US extra-territorial legislation so that they can develop their business with Iran, both to protect European economic interests targeted by America and to ensure survival of agreement with Iran, without which a large scale war in the Middle East is probable, that would also jeopardize European interests (oil price, for one thing).

How to protect European companies isn't perfectly clear at this point. Several options are studied. Some would need elements of a trade war with the US, some might not need so.

What is clear is that European leaders perceive the US decision as in part an economic aggression on Europe. Correctly so.



“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Alexis
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by Alexis » Sun May 13, 2018 3:31 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 1:31 pm
The "adviser" is not even named.

His purported remark isn't sourced.

This is hearsay at best. Probably worse.

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Doc
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Re: The enslavement of the population of EUrope

Post by Doc » Sun May 13, 2018 3:58 pm

Alexis wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 3:31 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 1:31 pm
The "adviser" is not even named.

His purported remark isn't sourced.

This is hearsay at best. Probably worse.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/05 ... nuke-deal/
Iran’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hossein Jaberi Ansari warned Western officials this week that if they do not put pressure on the Trump administration the Iranian regime will leak the names of all Western officials who were bribed to pass the weak deal.


European politicians have a long history of taking foreign bribes. The UN-Iraq Oil for bribes program for example. I am wondering about the current immigration crisis in Europe. The Attack in Paris from last night for example The police last I heard still are refusing to state the perpetrator conducted a Islamic terror attack. IE European politicians are refusing to do what is best for the safety of their citizens It is inexplicable as to why they are doing that. THe reason given do not add up Leaving wide open that explanation that they are being bribed to do it.

You say that the US is making a power play against Europe but someone else is making a big power play against the people in Europe. It probably started with the economic crisis in Southern Europe.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Alexis
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by Alexis » Sun May 13, 2018 4:30 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 3:58 pm
Iran’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hossein Jaberi Ansari
We got a name now. Great.

Still no source at all for this purported remark.

Hearsay at best, as I was saying. More probably propaganda, pure and simple.

The police last I heard still are refusing to state the perpetrator conducted a Islamic terror attack.
That's just not true. You are ill-informed on this matter.

Possibly disinformed, I would say.

You say that the US is making a power play against Europe but someone else is making a big power play against the people in Europe.
The name you're looking for is: "Saudi Arabia". You probably remember that 15 among 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Not a single one of them was Iranian.

That's one of the countries which are setting the US for military confrontation against Iran.

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cassowary
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Re: The Freeing of Europe

Post by cassowary » Sun May 13, 2018 5:00 pm

Alexis,

The 11 hijackers might have been Saudi, not Iranian. But the Saudis don't try to gain nukes and ballistic missiles. So the threat from Iran is greater. Nor is the Saudi government hostile to the US. If I were European, I would be worried about Iran and not Saudi Arabia. Europe is within range of Iranian missiles. The US is further away and at this time, hpbeyong reach.

Europeans are looking at the short term gain of trade with Iran and no thinking of the long term danger.

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Doc
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by Doc » Sun May 13, 2018 6:58 pm

Alexis wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 4:30 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 3:58 pm
Iran’s Foreign Ministry Spokesman Hossein Jaberi Ansari
We got a name now. Great.

Still no source at all for this purported remark.

Hearsay at best, as I was saying. More probably propaganda, pure and simple.

The police last I heard still are refusing to state the perpetrator conducted a Islamic terror attack.
That's just not true. You are ill-informed on this matter.

Possibly disinformed, I would say.
OK Show the source where Paris police say this is Islamic terrorism. The guy was shouting "Allah Akbar" before he was shot to death by police. In their initial briefing they purportedly said they did not know what the motive was. Either they said they knew the motive or they did not. They may have changed by now but initially they did not say it was Islamic Terrorism

You say that the US is making a power play against Europe but someone else is making a big power play against the people in Europe.
The name you're looking for is: "Saudi Arabia". You probably remember that 15 among 19 hijackers on 9/11 were Saudis. Not a single one of them was Iranian.
All of the people that took US embassy staff hostage for 444 days, an act of terrorism sponsored by the Islamic regime of Iran, were Iranian.
That's one of the countries which are setting the US for military confrontation against Iran.
Show me your source that the Saudi Government was sponsored the 911 attacks
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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