Bitcoin and crypto currencies

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Doc
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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Doc » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:14 pm

DavAdmin wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:07 pm
Cryptos will eventually replace fiat - but only when they are truly peer-to-peer and not traded through centralized exchanges or manipulated by whales that own a big stash.

It is natural that central banks and dinosaur billionaires are critical of them.
I am sure it will eventually Honestly I wish it would do so quickly. But I recall an argument for not using Linux because there was no one to call if it breaks. Now of course that was a poor argument against not using Linux but if the person in charge of procuring operating systems could not be sure that it was NOT a courageous decision to switch to Linux they would not do so with little personal benefit. IE worries about losing their jobs if something were to go wrong.

So if I were happening to be developing a form of blockchain ledger I would either develop in for small personal businesses or a consumer type app to buy things.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:50 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:54 pm
Sure, there's a lot of VC money in it, so I'm not surprised you're hearing about it all day long! And yes, there are good possible uses for blockchains out there, like maybe student transcripts or certain sorts of registries. But the hype is stratospheric, like how a few years ago MOOCs were supposedly going to destroy traditional universities.
Honestly I think Online colleges will get there eventually. The problem to date I think is that the big ones charge too much. Like with traditional colleges it is more money than education.
In the U.S., high tuition fees, even for online programmes where the costs are lower, are pretty well explained by the so-called Bennett hypothesis, that because the federal government supplies grants and loan guarantees almost without condition, an artificial ocean of money is available for higher education and fees are raised to soak it up.

If you look at some of the schools accredited by the Distance Education Accrediting Commission, most of which do not participate in those federal programmes, their fees are much, much lower, in many cases lower even than community colleges who are state subsidised.
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm
As for banks have you noticed recently the number of bank branches that have been closing? It seems people love being able to deposit check remotely via their smart phones Which is how bitcoin is transacted.
I haven't noticed this, but then my credit union has a main branch in Alexandria, Virginia, a few satellite branches in a few outlying places, and that's it. I haven't had an account at a bank in a long time. (But I believe you!)
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm
The real problem with blockchain ledgers is going to be adoption by large business. Company accountants are going to be very skeptical until it is proven trust worthy. as in "What do you mean you didn't get our payment?" How do they explain to their bosses that there is no one to call to find out where the money went and that the transaction can't be reversed"? Accountants would personally see zero benefit of block chain to pay and receive money, just risk. So unless they are told to do it It will not happen. And they will not be told to do it unless the benefit outweighs the risk by a substantial margin and it is painfully obvious to all it will work.
But that's not how it works. The whole point of a blockchain is that it's a publicly viewable ledger, which means there is zero doubt by anyone whether a payment was received. You can go online and see them for yourself!

I would expect that a bigger problem for conventional businesses would be exchange risk, but that's another matter.
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:14 pm
DavAdmin wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:07 pm
Cryptos will eventually replace fiat - but only when they are truly peer-to-peer and not traded through centralized exchanges or manipulated by whales that own a big stash.

It is natural that central banks and dinosaur billionaires are critical of them.
I am sure it will eventually Honestly I wish it would do so quickly. But I recall an argument for not using Linux because there was no one to call if it breaks. Now of course that was a poor argument against not using Linux but if the person in charge of procuring operating systems could not be sure that it was NOT a courageous decision to switch to Linux they would not do so with little personal benefit. IE worries about losing their jobs if something were to go wrong.

So if I were happening to be developing a form of blockchain ledger I would either develop in for small personal businesses or a consumer type app to buy things.
The great thing about Linux is that you can call anyone you like when it breaks. Rather than be trapped into relying on one provider, a whole ecosystem of service companies that provide support and training for Linux arose. Various certifications arose as well, so that one could make a better determination who was actually good at what they were doing.

It's similar for other open source projects. As a higher education administrator, I used to be a school's Blackboard administrator (a proprietary closed source system). If I didn't like the support Blackboard, Inc. provided then I was out of luck. But now that I run an institution myself, we use Moodle, an open source alternative for which there are many different service providers. If I don't like one, they're fired and I use a different one.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Doc » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:24 am

I agree with DavAdmin that Bitcoin needs to be non centralized. But also that it has to be spent as a currency rather than bought as a speculative investment.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... first-half
Bitcoin Bloodbath Nears Dot-Com Levels as Many Tokens Go to Zero
By Adam Haigh
and Eric Lam

June 29, 2018, 10:34 AM EDT
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Doc » Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:30 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:50 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:54 pm
Sure, there's a lot of VC money in it, so I'm not surprised you're hearing about it all day long! And yes, there are good possible uses for blockchains out there, like maybe student transcripts or certain sorts of registries. But the hype is stratospheric, like how a few years ago MOOCs were supposedly going to destroy traditional universities.
Honestly I think Online colleges will get there eventually. The problem to date I think is that the big ones charge too much. Like with traditional colleges it is more money than education.
In the U.S., high tuition fees, even for online programmes where the costs are lower, are pretty well explained by the so-called Bennett hypothesis, that because the federal government supplies grants and loan guarantees almost without condition, an artificial ocean of money is available for higher education and fees are raised to soak it up.

If you look at some of the schools accredited by the Distance Education Accrediting Commission, most of which do not participate in those federal programmes, their fees are much, much lower, in many cases lower even than community colleges who are state subsidised.
Thanks for the link Steve to the deac site. I know someone that it could help a great deal
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm
As for banks have you noticed recently the number of bank branches that have been closing? It seems people love being able to deposit check remotely via their smart phones Which is how bitcoin is transacted.
I haven't noticed this, but then my credit union has a main branch in Alexandria, Virginia, a few satellite branches in a few outlying places, and that's it. I haven't had an account at a bank in a long time. (But I believe you!)
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:03 pm
The real problem with blockchain ledgers is going to be adoption by large business. Company accountants are going to be very skeptical until it is proven trust worthy. as in "What do you mean you didn't get our payment?" How do they explain to their bosses that there is no one to call to find out where the money went and that the transaction can't be reversed"? Accountants would personally see zero benefit of block chain to pay and receive money, just risk. So unless they are told to do it It will not happen. And they will not be told to do it unless the benefit outweighs the risk by a substantial margin and it is painfully obvious to all it will work.
But that's not how it works. The whole point of a blockchain is that it's a publicly viewable ledger, which means there is zero doubt by anyone whether a payment was received. You can go online and see them for yourself!

I would expect that a bigger problem for conventional businesses would be exchange risk, but that's another matter.
Doc wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:14 pm
DavAdmin wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:07 pm
Cryptos will eventually replace fiat - but only when they are truly peer-to-peer and not traded through centralized exchanges or manipulated by whales that own a big stash.

It is natural that central banks and dinosaur billionaires are critical of them.
I am sure it will eventually Honestly I wish it would do so quickly. But I recall an argument for not using Linux because there was no one to call if it breaks. Now of course that was a poor argument against not using Linux but if the person in charge of procuring operating systems could not be sure that it was NOT a courageous decision to switch to Linux they would not do so with little personal benefit. IE worries about losing their jobs if something were to go wrong.

So if I were happening to be developing a form of blockchain ledger I would either develop in for small personal businesses or a consumer type app to buy things.
The great thing about Linux is that you can call anyone you like when it breaks. Rather than be trapped into relying on one provider, a whole ecosystem of service companies that provide support and training for Linux arose. Various certifications arose as well, so that one could make a better determination who was actually good at what they were doing.

It's similar for other open source projects. As a higher education administrator, I used to be a school's Blackboard administrator (a proprietary closed source system). If I didn't like the support Blackboard, Inc. provided then I was out of luck. But now that I run an institution myself, we use Moodle, an open source alternative for which there are many different service providers. If I don't like one, they're fired and I use a different one.
I understand all of that Steve but this is a matter of penguins trying to push each other into the water to see if there is a killer whale below the iceberg. IE if someone at an institution goes all in and they are successful they will be hailed as a genius If they fail they will lose their job and in effect be dead as far as institutional investing is concerned. From the link in my last post:
While Bitcoin has bounced back from bigger losses before, it’s far from clear that it can repeat the feat now that much of the world knows about cryptocurrencies and has made up their mind on whether to invest. Bulls point to the Nasdaq’s eventual recovery and say institutional investors represent a massive pool of potential cryptocurrency buyers, but regulatory and security concerns have so far kept most big money managers on the sidelines.

“You’ll have to see the market reverse before you see” institutions pile in, Peter Smith, chief executive officer of Blockchain Ltd., which introduced a crypto trading platform for professional investors on Thursday, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television.
Which I take as a positive for Bitcoin.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Milo » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:40 pm

I can't think of a successful currency that was not an investment, so I think the cannibalism is just a way to determine if this is for real.

I keep looking for new investment opportunities but although there's a lot of interesting innovation: AI, robotics, blockchain; none of it seems very investable to me. As a matter of fact, all of these innovations are so unestablished that there is often controversy as to whether they are even the tech they purport to be. Even a friend of mine's company that does hardware is accused of producing the results using plain old computer methods, instead of the quantum that they aim to use.

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Doc » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:07 pm

How about Blockchain + Social Media ?

https://cdn-assets.minds.com/front/dist ... r-v0.3.pdf

MINDS: THE CRYPTO SOCIAL NETWORK
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:28 am

Doc wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:07 pm
How about Blockchain + Social Media ?

https://cdn-assets.minds.com/front/dist ... r-v0.3.pdf

MINDS: THE CRYPTO SOCIAL NETWORK
Minds was pretty late to jump on board that train. I gather that Steemit is more popular amongst crypto types who want a blockchain shoehorned into their social media.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Doc » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:22 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:28 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:07 pm
How about Blockchain + Social Media ?

https://cdn-assets.minds.com/front/dist ... r-v0.3.pdf

MINDS: THE CRYPTO SOCIAL NETWORK
Minds was pretty late to jump on board that train. I gather that Steemit is more popular amongst crypto types who want a blockchain shoehorned into their social media.
Honestly I never heard of either before today.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:38 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:22 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:28 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:07 pm
How about Blockchain + Social Media ?

https://cdn-assets.minds.com/front/dist ... r-v0.3.pdf

MINDS: THE CRYPTO SOCIAL NETWORK
Minds was pretty late to jump on board that train. I gather that Steemit is more popular amongst crypto types who want a blockchain shoehorned into their social media.
Honestly I never heard of either before today.
You're probably not missing a whole lot.

On the topic of social media networks, I've been active on Facebook for a really long time (as with most of these things I was an early adopter) but at this point it's devolved into mostly political shouting. The only thing really keeping me there is the few relationships (mostly relatives, a few friends) that would end in any meaningful sense were I do abandon the platform altogether, but I have to admit that because time spent there doesn't in any way help me reach my goals it's become a net negative in my life.

Of course, I suppose I could say the same thing about you guys, but somehow that seems a little different. ;)
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President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Re: Bitcoin and crypto currencies

Post by Doc » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:47 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:38 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:22 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:28 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:07 pm
How about Blockchain + Social Media ?

https://cdn-assets.minds.com/front/dist ... r-v0.3.pdf

MINDS: THE CRYPTO SOCIAL NETWORK
Minds was pretty late to jump on board that train. I gather that Steemit is more popular amongst crypto types who want a blockchain shoehorned into their social media.
Honestly I never heard of either before today.
You're probably not missing a whole lot.

On the topic of social media networks, I've been active on Facebook for a really long time (as with most of these things I was an early adopter) but at this point it's devolved into mostly political shouting. The only thing really keeping me there is the few relationships (mostly relatives, a few friends) that would end in any meaningful sense were I do abandon the platform altogether, but I have to admit that because time spent there doesn't in any way help me reach my goals it's become a net negative in my life.

Of course, I suppose I could say the same thing about you guys, but somehow that seems a little different. ;)
Perhaps we could improve things by tailoring your experience here just for you. :P
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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