Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

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Doc
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Re: well, unfettered capitalism does not seem to work too well either!

Post by Doc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:10 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:29 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 pm


Private fortunes of the rich can easily be protected using tax havens. What I fear is that Socialism will lead to bankruptcy and dictatorship. That is what is happening now in Venezuela.

You do not need socialism to ruin a country cassowary; only mismanagement.

You credit Singapore's wealth to "free market capitalism": but has it ever occurred to you that it would never have happened at all were it not for decades of first class fiscal and economic management by your government?
So in effect Socialism is the mismanagement of the whole for the benefit of the few.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: well, unfettered capitalism does not seem to work too well either!

Post by cassowary » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:57 am

Doc wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:10 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:29 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 pm


Private fortunes of the rich can easily be protected using tax havens. What I fear is that Socialism will lead to bankruptcy and dictatorship. That is what is happening now in Venezuela.

You do not need socialism to ruin a country cassowary; only mismanagement.

You credit Singapore's wealth to "free market capitalism": but has it ever occurred to you that it would never have happened at all were it not for decades of first class fiscal and economic management by your government?
So in effect Socialism is the mismanagement of the whole for the benefit of the few.
That's right. Good management of the economy means abiding by free market principles and not Socialist ones. Goods and services should be provided by the private sector whenever possible. A government must only provide services that cannot be efficiently provided by the free market.

For example, security cannot be provided by the free market. Security from foreign invasion is a public service we all require. But we cannot have a dozen armies for us to choose from to protect us from external threats. The military can only be provided by the government. It is the same for the police. The government must also provide rule of law. This too cannot be provided by the private sector.

Got it neverfail?

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Re: Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:42 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 pm
Private fortunes of the rich can easily be protected using tax havens. What I fear is that Socialism will lead to bankruptcy and dictatorship. That is what is happening now in Venezuela.

I am sure the rich in Venezuela have protected their fortunes in nearby tax havens such as Cayman Island, Bahamas, British Virgin Island etc. it is the middle class and the poor that get screwed.
While I agree it's a common practice for kleptocrats to store their ill-gotten gains in other countries than the one they've pillaged, it's actually much more difficult to use tax havens than it used to be.
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Re: Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

Post by Doc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:13 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:42 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:56 pm
Private fortunes of the rich can easily be protected using tax havens. What I fear is that Socialism will lead to bankruptcy and dictatorship. That is what is happening now in Venezuela.

I am sure the rich in Venezuela have protected their fortunes in nearby tax havens such as Cayman Island, Bahamas, British Virgin Island etc. it is the middle class and the poor that get screwed.
While I agree it's a common practice for kleptocrats to store their ill-gotten gains in other countries than the one they've pillaged, it's actually much more difficult to use tax havens than it used to be.
I haven't seen it in English but there is a story in Brazil from yesterday that Lula is explaining his purported billionaire status to his wife's Avon business.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

Post by Doc » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 pm

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

Post by Doc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:08 pm

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:08 pm
Come on, this is so easy to debunk. Like, a single search. Ten seconds of effort.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/religio ... ejesus.asp
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Re: Why Socialists cannot see the truth (that Socialism does not work)

Post by Doc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:50 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:08 pm
Come on, this is so easy to debunk. Like, a single search. Ten seconds of effort.

https://www.snopes.com/politics/religio ... ejesus.asp

I remembered one more recently that was on the news. I was thinking this was the same.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Walmart raises pay and perks to employees

Post by cassowary » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:04 pm

Walmart to boost pay and benefits to workers after tax cuts.

Excerpt:
Walmart is increasing its starting wage rate for hourly employees in the U.S. to $11, after passage of the tax law.
The company said it will also expand maternity and parental leave benefits, and provide a one-time cash bonus for eligible employees of as much as $1,000.
Walmart said it's still looking at other "potential additional investments" that could come after the new tax laws.
See, Neverfail and Sertorio.

You don't need unions to boost pay and benefits to workers. When companies do well, pay and benefits automatically go up. In this case, the tax cuts automatically raise after-tax company profits. No need for union action.

The lesson number 1 is that the owners of the company and the workers are in the same boat. They prosper or become impoverished together. The story is not the capitalist owner vs workers as the classic Marxist ideology preaches. It is the company (comprising owners and workers) vs the competition. Both will sink or swim together because the company is the same boat that both groups are in.

The unions have imbibed the Marxist class warfare ideology. They think the owners of the company are the enemy. It is the competition that is the enemy of both.

Lesson number 2 is that there are three parties that a company must take care of - the customer, the workers and the owners. The smart owner knows that the workers must be kept happy for the company to serve its customers well. The smart worker knows that the owners must be kept happy or they won't invest more.

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