Neverfail's North American ruminations.

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neverfail
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Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by neverfail » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:58 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:51 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:49 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:18 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:01 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:12 pm

You never need wonder where global anti-Americanism comes from.
Indeed. Hopefully the world may now be better equipped to put the leash on the beast...
I don't think so Sertorio. A US president has only limited powers. Constitutional limitations; the division of powers between executive and legislature and between the Federal and states means that the experience of being a POTUS must be quite exasperating quite often. Unfortunately, the particular powers he does have at his command can be used in quite a devastating manner.
As it happens, many Americans welcome anti-Americanism from any source. It assists the US in identifying those folks who cannot be relied upon as reliable partners in furthering US interests. While we realize that there are needy entities worldwide who worry about being "liked," there is much to be said for being disliked.
Can we who are not Americans rely up your country to be a reliable partner in furthering OUR interests: given the way in which even long standing US commitments to proven allies can and too often are dishonoured by the demands of partisan US domestic politics and even the whims of idiot presidents?
"Can we who are not Americans rely upon your country to be a reliable partner . . .?"
Probably not, neverfail. Needy partners are falling by the wayside as America looks more and more towards putting its own best interests first.
When did America ever stop?

Jim the Moron
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by Jim the Moron » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:58 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:12 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:51 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:49 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:18 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:01 am


Indeed. Hopefully the world may now be better equipped to put the leash on the beast...
I don't think so Sertorio. A US president has only limited powers. Constitutional limitations; the division of powers between executive and legislature and between the Federal and states means that the experience of being a POTUS must be quite exasperating quite often. Unfortunately, the particular powers he does have at his command can be used in quite a devastating manner.
As it happens, many Americans welcome anti-Americanism from any source. It assists the US in identifying those folks who cannot be relied upon as reliable partners in furthering US interests. While we realize that there are needy entities worldwide who worry about being "liked," there is much to be said for being disliked.
Can we who are not Americans rely up your country to be a reliable partner in furthering OUR interests: given the way in which even long standing US commitments to proven allies can and too often are dishonoured by the demands of partisan US domestic politics and even the whims of idiot presidents?


"Can we who are not Americans rely upon your country to be a reliable partner . . .?"
Probably not, neverfail. Needy partners are falling by the wayside as America looks more and more towards putting its own best interests first.
When did America ever stop?

Perhaps you believe that there have been nations whose governments were so altruistic that they put the interests of other countries ahead of their own. If so, please enumerate. Otherwise your comments make no sense.
To repeat the points I made on this thread:
1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves to be unreliable.
2. The US is increasingly putting its own best interests first.
3. The US is decreasingly concerned about being "liked."
Whether one approves or disapproves of all of this is inconsequential - it is what it is.

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Sertorio
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Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by Sertorio » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:55 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 am

Perhaps you believe that there have been nations whose governments were so altruistic that they put the interests of other countries ahead of their own. If so, please enumerate. Otherwise your comments make no sense.

To repeat the points I made on this thread:

1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves to be unreliable.
2. The US is increasingly putting its own best interests first.
3. The US is decreasingly concerned about being "liked."

Whether one approves or disapproves of all of this is inconsequential - it is what it is.
I will agree to what is stated on those three points, except that the first point should read:

1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves not to be sufficiently submissive.

And I think the US is entitled to do as stated, but the rest of the world is also entitled to see the US as an adversary, as a potential aggressor, and not as a friend or an ally. As far as Europe is concerned that means ending the Atlantic alliance, dismantling NATO, building its own defense structure, and looking to Russia as the prefered partner.

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:10 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:58 pm


When did America ever stop?

Perhaps you believe that there have been nations whose governments were so altruistic that they put the interests of other countries ahead of their own.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

It seems that you misread by question.

Jim the Moron
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Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by Jim the Moron » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:55 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 am

Perhaps you believe that there have been nations whose governments were so altruistic that they put the interests of other countries ahead of their own. If so, please enumerate. Otherwise your comments make no sense.

To repeat the points I made on this thread:

1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves to be unreliable.
2. The US is increasingly putting its own best interests first.
3. The US is decreasingly concerned about being "liked."

Whether one approves or disapproves of all of this is inconsequential - it is what it is.
I will agree to what is stated on those three points, except that the first point should read:

1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves not to be sufficiently submissive.

And I think the US is entitled to do as stated, but the rest of the world is also entitled to see the US as an adversary, as a potential aggressor, and not as a friend or an ally. As far as Europe is concerned that means ending the Atlantic alliance, dismantling NATO, building its own defense structure, and looking to Russia as the prefered partner.
Of course nations should do what they believe is best for themselves. Unfortunately, many of them lack sufficient self-respect and seek to hide under the umbrella of a "preferred partner."

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Sertorio
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Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by Sertorio » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:36 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:55 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 am

Perhaps you believe that there have been nations whose governments were so altruistic that they put the interests of other countries ahead of their own. If so, please enumerate. Otherwise your comments make no sense.

To repeat the points I made on this thread:

1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves to be unreliable.
2. The US is increasingly putting its own best interests first.
3. The US is decreasingly concerned about being "liked."

Whether one approves or disapproves of all of this is inconsequential - it is what it is.
I will agree to what is stated on those three points, except that the first point should read:

1. The US is discarding partners as they prove themselves not to be sufficiently submissive.

And I think the US is entitled to do as stated, but the rest of the world is also entitled to see the US as an adversary, as a potential aggressor, and not as a friend or an ally. As far as Europe is concerned that means ending the Atlantic alliance, dismantling NATO, building its own defense structure, and looking to Russia as the prefered partner.
Of course nations should do what they believe is best for themselves. Unfortunately, many of them lack sufficient self-respect and seek to hide under the umbrella of a "preferred partner."
A partnership of Europe and Russia could never be a surrender of Europe to Russia. After all, Russia is not that big a power to be able to submit Europe. No hiding under any umbrella, thus... I would expect it to be a true partnership with great benefits for both sides. And certainly a more cordial relationship that the one the US was willing to allow with Europe.

neverfail
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Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by neverfail » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:45 pm

Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am

Of course nations should do what they believe is best for themselves. Unfortunately, many of them lack sufficient self-respect and seek to hide under the umbrella of a "preferred partner."
Lack of self-respect has nothing to do with it. Instead, their policymakers calculate their own country's strength and weight relative to that of known and/or potential adversaries and draw the quite rational conclusion that it would pay them to have a stronger ally.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by Jim the Moron » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:42 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:45 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am

Of course nations should do what they believe is best for themselves. Unfortunately, many of them lack sufficient self-respect and seek to hide under the umbrella of a "preferred partner."
Lack of self-respect has nothing to do with it. Instead, their policymakers calculate their own country's strength and weight relative to that of known and/or potential adversaries and draw the quite rational conclusion that it would pay them to have a stronger ally.
Perhaps in some instances. But rational thought is not a feature of all-too-many governments today. Otherwise, how can we explain the capitulation of much of Europe to primitive Islam? The willingness of West Asian entities to give up their innocents to jihad? The tendency of some failing South American states to cast their lots with countries that are unable to provide relief for their people?

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Sertorio
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Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:44 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:45 pm
Jim the Moron wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:22 am

Of course nations should do what they believe is best for themselves. Unfortunately, many of them lack sufficient self-respect and seek to hide under the umbrella of a "preferred partner."
Lack of self-respect has nothing to do with it. Instead, their policymakers calculate their own country's strength and weight relative to that of known and/or potential adversaries and draw the quite rational conclusion that it would pay them to have a stronger ally.
It never pays to have a stronger ally, unless one aspires to becoming vassals to that power... Self-sufficiency is the thing, and Europe could easily enough be self-sufficient.

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Neverfail's North American ruminations.

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:15 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:44 am

It never pays to have a stronger ally, unless one aspires to becoming vassals to that power... Self-sufficiency is the thing, and Europe could easily enough be self-sufficient.
I am inclined to regard Europe as the least self-sufficient of the World's continents: if you can seriously consider it a continent at all.

The powers of Europe as much as acknowledged that in action over past centuries by building vast, sprawling overseas empires.

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