The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

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Sertorio
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:07 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:00 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:25 am
I have some comments on the Kim-Trump meeting, but I will not contribute to a thread with a childish designation of Chairman Kim of North Korea.
Trust you to demand respect for the most loathsome dictator on Earth.
Your opinion of Kim is irrelevant. What matters is what the North Koreans feel about him. He may be a dictator but if North Koreans truly like him, that's their affair, not yours. You may say North Koreans are being manipulated, but aren't you too?... Only the ways that manipulation is carried out may differ, but the result is very much the same. Both them and you are led to believe things which are not true...
Yeah, they really love him. Just ask them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-hap ... ape-2018-6
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy. I suggest you look to the following essay

https://www.ncnk.org/resources/briefing ... onomy-2018

which seems more reliable than most. You get a picture of a poor country which is slowly improving, where food is not abundant but seems to be sufficient, a slowly developing private sector and a quiet acceptance of the regime, even if little enthusiastic. My own experience in Portugal, during the authoritarian rule of Salazar, is that people accept the lack of democracy as long as the standard of living is improving. Specially if people had never been prosperous nor known true democratic rule. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Kim was more popular - or better accepted - than most people think in the West. Certainly people are not so unsatisfied that they would risk trying to overturn Kim and his regime. And even if prosperity comes to North Korea, that's not enough for a democratic movement to be successful. Just look at China, where an enormous growth in prosperity for most Chinese has not been followed by calls for more democracy. Very likely Kim's rule will by far outlast the rule of any politician in any western country...

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Sertorio
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:33 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:23 am

Sertorio wants to believe that the N Koreans love Fatty Kim because He can’t bring himself to admit that Socialism is a failure. In his fantasyland, Socialism is a great success in N Korea and so the people loves Fatty Kim.
I'm still trying to figure out whether you are intellectually very limited, or whether your hatred of what you call "socialism" is such that you are incapable of straightforward reasoning...

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cassowary
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by cassowary » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:44 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:29 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:07 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:00 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:25 am
I have some comments on the Kim-Trump meeting, but I will not contribute to a thread with a childish designation of Chairman Kim of North Korea.
Trust you to demand respect for the most loathsome dictator on Earth.
Your opinion of Kim is irrelevant. What matters is what the North Koreans feel about him. He may be a dictator but if North Koreans truly like him, that's their affair, not yours. You may say North Koreans are being manipulated, but aren't you too?... Only the ways that manipulation is carried out may differ, but the result is very much the same. Both them and you are led to believe things which are not true...
Yeah, they really love him. Just ask them.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-hap ... ape-2018-6
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy. I suggest you look to the following essay

https://www.ncnk.org/resources/briefing ... onomy-2018

which seems more reliable than most. You get a picture of a poor country which is slowly improving, where food is not abundant but seems to be sufficient, a slowly developing private sector and a quiet acceptance of the regime, even if little enthusiastic. My own experience in Portugal, during the authoritarian rule of Salazar, is that people accept the lack of democracy as long as the standard of living is improving. Specially if people had never been prosperous nor known true democratic rule. So, I wouldn't be surprised if Kim was more popular - or better accepted - than most people think in the West. Certainly people are not so unsatisfied that they would risk trying to overturn Kim and his regime. And even if prosperity comes to North Korea, that's not enough for a democratic movement to be successful. Just look at China, where an enormous growth in prosperity for most Chinese has not been followed by calls for more democracy. Very likely Kim's rule will by far outlast the rule of any politician in any western country...
Sertorio,

I see you are trying hard to write positively about Fatty Kim. What I see is that he tried to implement Socialism and the result is disastrous. Compare North and South Korea. South Koreans are richer, and freer than North Koreans. That cannot be disputed.

All you can say is that the North Koreans are more accepting of Fatty Kim than what outsiders think. This is simply opinion and not undisputed fact. You should note that many North Koreans defect to the South. But no South Koreans defect to the north.

When are you going to admit that Socialism does not work? When will you stop saying nice things about Socialist dictators like Fatty Kim?

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Doc
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by Doc » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:32 am

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy.
It's actually pretty easy to see the accounts from people who have escaped from there. But you've long since proven capable of ignoring anything that doesn't support an anti-American narrative and believing anything that does, no matter how gullible you have to be to do so.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy.
It's actually pretty easy to see the accounts from people who have escaped from there. But you've long since proven capable of ignoring anything that doesn't support an anti-American narrative and believing anything that does, no matter how gullible you have to be to do so.
You will believe anything, as long as it fits your biased views. Can you fully trust the description of North Korea given by those who ran away? There are Americans who have, in the last few years, renounced their citizenship and moved to Europe. Would you trust them to give an objective view of the US?...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:30 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy.
It's actually pretty easy to see the accounts from people who have escaped from there. But you've long since proven capable of ignoring anything that doesn't support an anti-American narrative and believing anything that does, no matter how gullible you have to be to do so.
You will believe anything, as long as it fits your biased views. Can you fully trust the description of North Korea given by those who ran away?
Yes.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
There are Americans who have, in the last few years, renounced their citizenship and moved to Europe. Would you trust them to give an objective view of the US?...
Having lived both inside the U.S. and outside it, yes, actually.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:14 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:30 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy.
It's actually pretty easy to see the accounts from people who have escaped from there. But you've long since proven capable of ignoring anything that doesn't support an anti-American narrative and believing anything that does, no matter how gullible you have to be to do so.
You will believe anything, as long as it fits your biased views. Can you fully trust the description of North Korea given by those who ran away?
Yes.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
There are Americans who have, in the last few years, renounced their citizenship and moved to Europe. Would you trust them to give an objective view of the US?...
Having lived both inside the U.S. and outside it, yes, actually.
Your knowledge of statistics doesn't seem to be very good. You accept biased samples far too easily...

neverfail
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by neverfail » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:54 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:30 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am


You will believe anything, as long as it fits your biased views. Can you fully trust the description of North Korea given by those who ran away?
Yes.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
There are Americans who have, in the last few years, renounced their citizenship and moved to Europe. Would you trust them to give an objective view of the US?...
Having lived both inside the U.S. and outside it, yes, actually.
No big deal! We have Americans living here permanently (I even know a couple of them) who have grown to love their adopted country to the point of taking out Australian citizenship. But then I also know of a similar number of Aussies who have permanently settled in the United States and seem to love it over there.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Trump-Fatty Kim summit in Singapore

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:14 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:14 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:30 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:33 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
Having a reliable picture of North Korea is not easy.
It's actually pretty easy to see the accounts from people who have escaped from there. But you've long since proven capable of ignoring anything that doesn't support an anti-American narrative and believing anything that does, no matter how gullible you have to be to do so.
You will believe anything, as long as it fits your biased views. Can you fully trust the description of North Korea given by those who ran away?
Yes.
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:26 am
There are Americans who have, in the last few years, renounced their citizenship and moved to Europe. Would you trust them to give an objective view of the US?...
Having lived both inside the U.S. and outside it, yes, actually.
Your knowledge of statistics doesn't seem to be very good. You accept biased samples far too easily...
That would bite harder if it weren't coming from someone who takes Kremlin propaganda at face value solely because it fits his preferred narrative.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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