The Freeing of Europe

Discussion of current events
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SteveFoerster
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun May 13, 2018 9:52 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
I don't think Iran is a rational actor. They are the Shiite version of ISIS. They wish for Islam to dominate the world except that their version of Islam is the Shiite version. That is why their priority is not the welfare of their people. Instead, they spend their oil money, not on giving their people a better life, but in supporting regional wars - from Houthis to Hizbollah. They seek a regional empire. I don't consider this to be rational.
Right, if Iran didn't want to be viewed as aggressive, why did they place their country so close to all those U.S. military bases?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inter ... 67298.html
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
If the Americans have an anti-Iran obsession, it's because of the frequent demonstrations in Iran of crowds chanting, "death to America". Maybe you will also be anti-Iran if they are chanting "Death to France."
Iran is halfway around the world from the U.S. Any Americans negatively obsessed with Iran do so entirely by choice.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: The Freeing of Europe

Post by Milo » Sun May 13, 2018 10:41 pm

In a world that trades with Saudi Arabia nobody has a moral high ground for boycotting Iran.

Trump has done this for votes and for no other reason,

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cassowary
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by cassowary » Mon May 14, 2018 3:14 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:52 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
I don't think Iran is a rational actor. They are the Shiite version of ISIS. They wish for Islam to dominate the world except that their version of Islam is the Shiite version. That is why their priority is not the welfare of their people. Instead, they spend their oil money, not on giving their people a better life, but in supporting regional wars - from Houthis to Hizbollah. They seek a regional empire. I don't consider this to be rational.
Right, if Iran didn't want to be viewed as aggressive, why did they place their country so close to all those U.S. military bases?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inter ... 67298.html
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
If the Americans have an anti-Iran obsession, it's because of the frequent demonstrations in Iran of crowds chanting, "death to America". Maybe you will also be anti-Iran if they are chanting "Death to France."
Iran is halfway around the world from the U.S. Any Americans negatively obsessed with Iran do so entirely by choice.
US bases are there to protect their oil-producing allies from Iran. The region is full of crackpots and dangerous characters. If not for the US, Saddam Hussein would not have been expelled from Kuwait and might even be in Riyadh. You seem to think that Iran is behaving badly because the US is there. I think the US is there because Iran and others behave badly and the world needs oil.

The US is doing a good job keeping the oil flowing.

Besides protecting Europe from Russia, South Korea from N Korea, Taiwan from China, the US is also protecting the less horrible people like the Gulf Arabs from the more horrible people like Saddam Hussein and the Iranian Mullahs. It is a thankless task to be the world's policeman. But somebody has got to do it.

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Sertorio
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 14, 2018 3:48 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:14 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:52 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
I don't think Iran is a rational actor. They are the Shiite version of ISIS. They wish for Islam to dominate the world except that their version of Islam is the Shiite version. That is why their priority is not the welfare of their people. Instead, they spend their oil money, not on giving their people a better life, but in supporting regional wars - from Houthis to Hizbollah. They seek a regional empire. I don't consider this to be rational.
Right, if Iran didn't want to be viewed as aggressive, why did they place their country so close to all those U.S. military bases?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inter ... 67298.html
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
If the Americans have an anti-Iran obsession, it's because of the frequent demonstrations in Iran of crowds chanting, "death to America". Maybe you will also be anti-Iran if they are chanting "Death to France."
Iran is halfway around the world from the U.S. Any Americans negatively obsessed with Iran do so entirely by choice.
US bases are there to protect their oil-producing allies from Iran. The region is full of crackpots and dangerous characters. If not for the US, Saddam Hussein would not have been expelled from Kuwait and might even be in Riyadh. You seem to think that Iran is behaving badly because the US is there. I think the US is there because Iran and others behave badly and the world needs oil.

The US is doing a good job keeping the oil flowing.

Besides protecting Europe from Russia, South Korea from N Korea, Taiwan from China, the US is also protecting the less horrible people like the Gulf Arabs from the more horrible people like Saddam Hussein and the Iranian Mullahs. It is a thankless task to be the world's policeman. But somebody has got to do it.
Nobody has tasked the US with the so-called protection of any states. The US does it to serve its own economic and strategic interests. US "protection" has caused millions of victims since the end of WW II, in Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East. Hopefully the number of countries capable of stopping the US continuing with this racket is increasing, and the imperial days may be over for the US.

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cassowary
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by cassowary » Mon May 14, 2018 6:23 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:14 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:52 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
I don't think Iran is a rational actor. They are the Shiite version of ISIS. They wish for Islam to dominate the world except that their version of Islam is the Shiite version. That is why their priority is not the welfare of their people. Instead, they spend their oil money, not on giving their people a better life, but in supporting regional wars - from Houthis to Hizbollah. They seek a regional empire. I don't consider this to be rational.
Right, if Iran didn't want to be viewed as aggressive, why did they place their country so close to all those U.S. military bases?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inter ... 67298.html
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
If the Americans have an anti-Iran obsession, it's because of the frequent demonstrations in Iran of crowds chanting, "death to America". Maybe you will also be anti-Iran if they are chanting "Death to France."
Iran is halfway around the world from the U.S. Any Americans negatively obsessed with Iran do so entirely by choice.
US bases are there to protect their oil-producing allies from Iran. The region is full of crackpots and dangerous characters. If not for the US, Saddam Hussein would not have been expelled from Kuwait and might even be in Riyadh. You seem to think that Iran is behaving badly because the US is there. I think the US is there because Iran and others behave badly and the world needs oil.

The US is doing a good job keeping the oil flowing.

Besides protecting Europe from Russia, South Korea from N Korea, Taiwan from China, the US is also protecting the less horrible people like the Gulf Arabs from the more horrible people like Saddam Hussein and the Iranian Mullahs. It is a thankless task to be the world's policeman. But somebody has got to do it.
Nobody has tasked the US with the so-called protection of any states. The US does it to serve its own economic and strategic interests. US "protection" has caused millions of victims since the end of WW II, in Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East. Hopefully the number of countries capable of stopping the US continuing with this racket is increasing, and the imperial days may be over for the US.
Nobody? Tell it to the South Koreans. They are paying the US half the cost of American troops stationed on their soil. If they don't need US protection all they have to do is to ask them to go. That's what the Philippines did. But the S Koreans are even prepared to pay.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east- ... rea-herald

I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

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Sertorio
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 14, 2018 9:00 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:23 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 3:14 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 9:52 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
I don't think Iran is a rational actor. They are the Shiite version of ISIS. They wish for Islam to dominate the world except that their version of Islam is the Shiite version. That is why their priority is not the welfare of their people. Instead, they spend their oil money, not on giving their people a better life, but in supporting regional wars - from Houthis to Hizbollah. They seek a regional empire. I don't consider this to be rational.
Right, if Iran didn't want to be viewed as aggressive, why did they place their country so close to all those U.S. military bases?

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inter ... 67298.html
cassowary wrote:
Sun May 13, 2018 2:49 am
If the Americans have an anti-Iran obsession, it's because of the frequent demonstrations in Iran of crowds chanting, "death to America". Maybe you will also be anti-Iran if they are chanting "Death to France."
Iran is halfway around the world from the U.S. Any Americans negatively obsessed with Iran do so entirely by choice.
US bases are there to protect their oil-producing allies from Iran. The region is full of crackpots and dangerous characters. If not for the US, Saddam Hussein would not have been expelled from Kuwait and might even be in Riyadh. You seem to think that Iran is behaving badly because the US is there. I think the US is there because Iran and others behave badly and the world needs oil.

The US is doing a good job keeping the oil flowing.

Besides protecting Europe from Russia, South Korea from N Korea, Taiwan from China, the US is also protecting the less horrible people like the Gulf Arabs from the more horrible people like Saddam Hussein and the Iranian Mullahs. It is a thankless task to be the world's policeman. But somebody has got to do it.
Nobody has tasked the US with the so-called protection of any states. The US does it to serve its own economic and strategic interests. US "protection" has caused millions of victims since the end of WW II, in Korea, Vietnam and the Middle East. Hopefully the number of countries capable of stopping the US continuing with this racket is increasing, and the imperial days may be over for the US.
Nobody? Tell it to the South Koreans. They are paying the US half the cost of American troops stationed on their soil. If they don't need US protection all they have to do is to ask them to go. That's what the Philippines did. But the S Koreans are even prepared to pay.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east- ... rea-herald

I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
Very soon we will see South Korea asking the Americans to go away, so that a peace treaty may be signed with North Korea...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon May 14, 2018 9:44 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:23 am
Nobody? Tell it to the South Koreans. They are paying the US half the cost of American troops stationed on their soil. If they don't need US protection all they have to do is to ask them to go. That's what the Philippines did. But the S Koreans are even prepared to pay.
Wow, half. So generous of them.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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cassowary
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by cassowary » Mon May 14, 2018 6:14 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:23 am
Nobody? Tell it to the South Koreans. They are paying the US half the cost of American troops stationed on their soil. If they don't need US protection all they have to do is to ask them to go. That's what the Philippines did. But the S Koreans are even prepared to pay.
Wow, half. So generous of them.
Trump is trying to get them to pay more by saying that if there is genuine peace, he wants to pull out US troops. The S Koreans still want the US to stay.

That's why I like the US. Not only has it kept its markets open so that we may prosper, it has spent blood and treasure to protect the more civilized parts of the world from the "new barbarians" like Rome once did.

Boy, did we prosper. The ones too dumb to take advantage are the new barbarians - Socialists and Islamists.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Pondering European options in response to US economic aggression

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue May 15, 2018 11:18 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:14 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 9:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:23 am
Nobody? Tell it to the South Koreans. They are paying the US half the cost of American troops stationed on their soil. If they don't need US protection all they have to do is to ask them to go. That's what the Philippines did. But the S Koreans are even prepared to pay.
Wow, half. So generous of them.
Trump is trying to get them to pay more by saying that if there is genuine peace, he wants to pull out US troops.
As much as I dislike agreeing with Trump, if he's going to happen to be right every once in a while, I suppose I'll have to bite the bullet.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: The Freeing of Europe

Post by Sertorio » Wed May 16, 2018 4:36 am

Europe to ditch US dollar in payments for Iranian oil
https://www.rt.com/business/426856-euro ... us-dollar/

The European Union is planning to switch payments to the euro for its oil purchases from Iran, eliminating US dollar transactions, a diplomatic source told RIA Novosti.

Brussels has been at odds with Washington over the US withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal, which was reached during the administration of Barack Obama. President Donald Trump has pledged to re-impose sanctions against the Islamic Republic.

“I’m privy to the information that the EU is going to shift from dollar to euro to pay for crude from Iran,” the source told the agency.

Earlier this week, EU foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini said that the foreign ministers of the UK, France, Germany, and Iran had agreed to work out practical solutions in response to Washington’s move in the next few weeks. The bloc is reportedly planning to maintain and deepen economic ties with Iran, including in the area of oil and gas supplies.

Mogherini stressed that the sides should jointly work on the lifting of sanctions as an integral part of the historic nuclear deal. “We're not naive and know it will be difficult for all sides.”

The Iran nuclear deal, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), was sealed three years ago in Vienna between Tehran and the P5+1 powers (China, France, Russia, UK, US, plus Germany). The agreement saw decades-long international sanctions lifted in exchange for Iran curbing its controversial nuclear program. On January 16, 2016, the parties to the deal announced the beginning of its implementation.

The lifting of international sanctions gave Iran access to the world’s markets for the first time in nearly four decades. Since then, Tehran has managed to significantly increase its exports of crude.

However, oil is pegged to the US dollar on international markets, making it difficult for Iran’s partners to make payments for crude and for Tehran to receive them. With the dollar playing the leading role on international financial markets, re-imposing sanctions would mean cutting Iran off from the global financial system.

At the same time, dozens of contracts signed between European businesses and the Islamic Republic could be at risk of cancellation if Brussels obeys Washington’s sanctions. This would damage Iran’s economy and European firms would lose a huge market in the Middle East. Switching to alternative settlement currencies allows both sides to continue trading despite US sanctions.
If this is confirmed, it will be a giant step for Europe to free itself from the US, and it will be a big step for the dollar to lose its ascendancy over the world markets. Which will lead to the downfall of the empire...

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