The largest collapse of a political party in American history

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Doc
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by Doc » Sat May 05, 2018 12:40 am

uche africanus wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:07 pm
November will be decisive. It will be the first grapeshots fired at the Republican Party on its way to becoming a party of white nationalists and loons. I predicted the collapse during the last presidential election. Then, Trump surprised everyone including many who voted for him and especially everyone who voted for third party candidates or stayed home. People know now that voting is critically important. And that the choice is no longer between half right and half left but between daylight and nightmare.
The turn out in the 2016 election was quite high Uche. I expect it to be high in November, However with the evolving scandal the Democrats may not have as much steam by then as the party of the White Liberal Burden. http://www.davosman.org/viewtopic.php?p=11472#p11472
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by Sertorio » Sat May 05, 2018 3:44 am

In Europe, by now there would have been a viable third party capable of replacing the corrupt politicians from the two major parties. Will that happen in the US? If not, why not?...

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Doc
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by Doc » Sat May 05, 2018 9:07 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 3:44 am
In Europe, by now there would have been a viable third party capable of replacing the corrupt politicians from the two major parties. Will that happen in the US? If not, why not?...
It would be preferable to have two new parties. The Democrat party is either going to reform itself or it is going to end. Soon. I suspect they are going to do very badly in the November elections. Already they are just a regional party. But both parties are very entranced in our political system. If the Democrats fail or reform it will be more a progressive party starting out with 20 to 22% of the electorate in support. I am not sure of the total but only part of that percentage has their hearts in the right place even though their ideas are out of touch with reality
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat May 05, 2018 2:48 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 3:44 am
In Europe, by now there would have been a viable third party capable of replacing the corrupt politicians from the two major parties. Will that happen in the US? If not, why not?...
It will not, because the entire U.S. political-media system is arrayed against the development of third parties, consisting both of legal barriers (ballot access requirements from which the major parties are exempt) and cultural ones (a constant media blackout of third party and alternative candidates).
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat May 05, 2018 2:50 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:07 am
The Democrat party is either going to reform itself or it is going to end. Soon. I suspect they are going to do very badly in the November elections. Already they are just a regional party. But both parties are very entranced in our political system. If the Democrats fail or reform it will be more a progressive party starting out with 20 to 22% of the electorate in support. I am not sure of the total but only part of that percentage has their hearts in the right place even though their ideas are out of touch with reality
You're disregarding the gains the Democrats are making in off-year elections. That sort of wishful thinking will significantly harm Republicans later this year in November.
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Doc
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by Doc » Sat May 05, 2018 5:24 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:50 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:07 am
The Democrat party is either going to reform itself or it is going to end. Soon. I suspect they are going to do very badly in the November elections. Already they are just a regional party. But both parties are very entranced in our political system. If the Democrats fail or reform it will be more a progressive party starting out with 20 to 22% of the electorate in support. I am not sure of the total but only part of that percentage has their hearts in the right place even though their ideas are out of touch with reality
You're disregarding the gains the Democrats are making in off-year elections. That sort of wishful thinking will significantly harm Republicans later this year in November.
Perhaps, It all depends on how propaganda turns out. Things are looking really really ugly on the Turmp Russia collusion front at the moment.

(Click on the tweet for the full transcript)

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by cassowary » Sat May 05, 2018 11:49 pm

Doc,

Don't get too excited. The good judge Ellis III asked for an uncensored version of Rod Rosenstein's instructions to Mueller. Eilis will then decide whether to throw out the case. We don't know what he will rule. If Mueller does not have the authority to prosecute Manafort, someone else has. That's what Mueller did to Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen.

So I don't understand why Mueller did not refer the case to the appropriate District Attorney in Manafort's case. Cohen's case is also not about Russian collusion. Maybe Mueller thought that no DA will be interested in Manafort? After all, it was many years ago, Manafort's alleged misdeeds were commonplace and a grey area and DA's got more important things to do. You know - ike murder, rape, drug trafficking etc.

From your transcripts, the Manafort case is an old one. As judge Ellis pointed out, the Manafort case did not arise out of Mueller's investigation but out of someone else's investigation. So apparently, the one who had investigated Manafort earlier decided not to prosecute. As the judge said, Mueller dug up this old case to squeeze Manafort - to get him to sing (possibly lie) to get Trump.

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Milo
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by Milo » Sun May 06, 2018 12:33 am

<r><QUOTE author="cassowary" post_id="11510" time="1525589359" user_id="60"><s>
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:49 pm
</s>
Doc,<br/>
<br/>
Don't get too excited. The good judge Ellis III asked for an uncensored version of Rod Rosenstein's instructions to Mueller. Eilis will then decide whether to throw out the case. We don't know what he will rule. If Mueller does not have the authority to prosecute Manafort, someone else has. That's what Mueller did to Trump's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen. <br/>
<br/>
So I don't understand why Mueller did not refer the case to the appropriate District Attorney in Manafort's case. Cohen's case is also not about Russian collusion. Maybe Mueller thought that no DA will be interested in Manafort? After all, it was many years ago, Manafort's alleged misdeeds were commonplace and a grey area and DA's got more important things to do. You know - ike murder, rape, drug trafficking etc.<br/>
<br/>
From your transcripts, the Manafort case is an old one. As judge Ellis pointed out, the Manafort case did not arise out of Mueller's investigation but out of someone else's investigation. So apparently, the one who had investigated Manafort earlier decided not to prosecute. As the judge said, Mueller dug up this old case to squeeze Manafort - to get him to sing (possibly lie) to get Trump.
<e>
The good judge is simply playing politics here.

He will not throw this out because he knows there is no legal reason to do so: that an investigation may overlap another and / or may be motivated by politics has nothing to do with the validity of an indictment, ie nobody was authorized to investigate whether Clinton got a blowjob.

The commentary is not helpful, in fact it is deceptive

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cassowary
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by cassowary » Sun May 06, 2018 6:52 pm

We will see Milo. I don't know or have any conviction how the good judge Ellis III will rule.

If I am the judge, I will throw it out. That's because Manafort was investigated years ago and cleared without charges. Mueller only charged him to put the squeeze on him to get to Trump. That strikes me as being unfair.

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Milo
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Re: The largest collapse of a political party in American history

Post by Milo » Sun May 06, 2018 10:29 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 6:52 pm
We will see Milo. I don't know or have any conviction how the good judge Ellis III will rule.

If I am the judge, I will throw it out. That's because Manafort was investigated years ago and cleared without charges. Mueller only charged him to put the squeeze on him to get to Trump. That strikes me as being unfair.
How do you know he was cleared?

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