Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

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neverfail
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by neverfail » Tue May 01, 2018 3:17 am

Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:54 pm

But answer this question -- How is it possible that the US is the only developed nation to meet the Kyoto treaty even though it never even ratified it?
Sheer good fortune, doc! Sometimes unforeseen, unsolicited good luck comes in to play a role in the fortunes of nations.

It would be laughable to imagine that it could have been due to superior US political wisdom.

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Sertorio
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by Sertorio » Tue May 01, 2018 3:33 am

cassowary wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:11 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:08 am

Unhelpful? The hallmark of every socialist regime is the public calling for equality by those who live better than their fellows and intend to keep doing so.
Exactly and it ties in with what I told Neverfail and Sertorio. Inequality is a part of nature. It happens in both Capitalist and Socialist societies. The strongest will always get a larger share of the resources in that society. The difference is that believers in capitalism admit that this natural outcome is part of their economic system. The Socialists are hypocritical, preaching one thing to their deceived followers while doing another. They claim to be trying to achieve equality while enjoying inequality. Their efforts invariably produce poverty except for themselves.

The Law of Nature at work:

Image
One lion with many lionesses. That means some lions don't get any females. Inequality is natural.
Inequality does exist. But while capitalism fosters it and thrives on it - whatever the social price to be paid -, socialism tries to minimize its more negative consequences. Some people seem never to be able to understand such simple concepts...

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Sertorio » Tue May 01, 2018 3:36 am

Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:54 pm

Solar and wind are not cheaper than oil. THere is lenty og Natural Gas in Europe particularly France but it is illegal to drill for it there as well

But answer this question -- How is it possible that the US is the only developed nation to meet the Kyoto treaty even though it never even ratified it?
Price is important, but more important is environment protection.

I was not aware of the US meeting the Kyoto treaty set limits. But what about the Paris treaty?...

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cassowary
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by cassowary » Tue May 01, 2018 6:35 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:33 am

Inequality does exist.
No doubt about that. But my point is that inequality is natural. Do you agree?

Socialism does not eliminate inequality. Eg Chavez & family were rich. Dacho living top people in the former Soviet Union. Do you agree with that? Socialism causes poverty. Do you agree?

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SteveFoerster
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue May 01, 2018 10:05 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:24 pm
Do you remember how a Turkish gunman, acting at the behest of the Soviet KGB, attempted to assassinate Pope John Paul in 1981? No Pope can afford to dispense with his security detail; for out there he has enemies who would like to rub him out. I don't understand what you are quibbling on about Steve.
You're right, you don't.

I'm not at all saying the pope is wrong for having armed security. I'm saying he's wrong to hypocritically say that others shouldn't have it.
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SteveFoerster
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue May 01, 2018 10:07 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:33 am
Inequality does exist. But while capitalism fosters it and thrives on it - whatever the social price to be paid -, socialism tries to minimize its more negative consequences. Some people seem never to be able to understand such simple concepts...
Perhaps that's because socialism usually fails in the attempt to minimise capitalism's more negative consequences while simultaneously introducing its own even worse negative consequences.
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Sertorio
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by Sertorio » Tue May 01, 2018 11:30 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 10:07 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:33 am
Inequality does exist. But while capitalism fosters it and thrives on it - whatever the social price to be paid -, socialism tries to minimize its more negative consequences. Some people seem never to be able to understand such simple concepts...
Perhaps that's because socialism usually fails in the attempt to minimise capitalism's more negative consequences while simultaneously introducing its own even worse negative consequences.
The difference might rather be that capitalism achieves what it wants - inequality and exploitation for the benefit of the few - and socialism mostly fails at what it wants - preventing inequality leading to social exclusion and to poverty... Even so, I prefer socialism's relative failure to capitalism's glorious achievement...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue May 01, 2018 11:58 am

Sertorio wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:30 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 10:07 am
Sertorio wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:33 am
Inequality does exist. But while capitalism fosters it and thrives on it - whatever the social price to be paid -, socialism tries to minimize its more negative consequences. Some people seem never to be able to understand such simple concepts...
Perhaps that's because socialism usually fails in the attempt to minimise capitalism's more negative consequences while simultaneously introducing its own even worse negative consequences.
The difference might rather be that capitalism achieves what it wants - inequality and exploitation for the benefit of the few - and socialism mostly fails at what it wants - preventing inequality leading to social exclusion and to poverty... Even so, I prefer socialism's relative failure to capitalism's glorious achievement...
Neither capitalism nor socialism "want" anything, only individuals do. And in both cases individuals want the same thing, to do well. The difference is that a market system provides an honest way for that to happen through competition, whereas a socialist system only provides the dishonest way of corruption.
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Sertorio
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by Sertorio » Tue May 01, 2018 12:56 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 11:58 am

Neither capitalism nor socialism "want" anything, only individuals do. And in both cases individuals want the same thing, to do well. The difference is that a market system provides an honest way for that to happen through competition, whereas a socialist system only provides the dishonest way of corruption.
You must be kidding!... In capitalism one cares only about one's own good, even if one does not wish ill to other people. In socialism one actively tries to achieve the common good, even if some people will not mind too much sacrificing the common good to promote one's own interest. Also, a market system is compatible with socialism, albeit not an unregulated market. And corruption is as rift in capitalism as in socialism. You should forget all those simplistic slogans which are promoted in your society, in order to make people accept a system which only benefits a few...

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Doc
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Doc » Tue May 01, 2018 3:04 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:17 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:54 pm

But answer this question -- How is it possible that the US is the only developed nation to meet the Kyoto treaty even though it never even ratified it?
Sheer good fortune, doc! Sometimes unforeseen, unsolicited good luck comes in to play a role in the fortunes of nations.

It would be laughable to imagine that it could have been due to superior US political wisdom.
Fracking is wisdom -- Applied science When will Europe "wise up" Especially given that they have been unable to meet their Kyoto agreed upon emissions of CO2?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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