Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

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neverfail
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Re: I'll believe it when I see it

Post by neverfail » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:04 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:34 pm


The "Communist" Chinese are puzzled by Singapore, a majority Chinese country that thinks and acts like a western power.
Well, it can't Cass. It is geographically attached to Asia to an extent that even we cannot rival.

(Even we have to watch our step by, say, abstaining from the habit of Western politicians elsewhere of grandstanding on issues like human rights in this countries. That always seems to antagonise Asian leaders.)

However, it is clear from what you have told me that Singapore feels a strong community of interest with The West, that not even considerations of ancestral attachment cannot override.

Singapore in effect has issued its own declaration of independence from the majority ancesteral homeland.

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cassowary
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Re: I'll believe it when I see it

Post by cassowary » Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:37 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:04 am
[
Well, it can't Cass. It is geographically attached to Asia to an extent that even we cannot rival.

(Even we have to watch our step by, say, abstaining from the habit of Western politicians elsewhere of grandstanding on issues like human rights in this countries. That always seems to antagonise Asian leaders.)
You are right that we can't and don't complain about China's human rights record. But on the other hand, we buy US arms and have warplanes stationed there. US warships regularly call at Singapore. We make no secret that we want the US to remain in Asia to discourage Chinese ambition to be Asia's overlord. The Chinese are puzzled by all this and see our cozy relations with the western countries as ethnic betrayal.

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Sertorio
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:58 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:48 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:23 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:07 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 am

Your two countries might have fewer security concerns if they were not so keen on reshaping the world to their immage, in order to serve their selfish interests...
No! Neither Australia nor Singapore are so megalomaniac ambitious as to aspire to reshaping the world to their immage. We both know our place. Rather, we just want to live in an environment of international peace in an otherwise potentially unstable part of the world so as to continue conducting our profitable international trade unmolested.
Then you chose the wrong partner to achieve that. The threatening power in East Asia is called US, not China...
Not so! In this part of the World the US has a proven record as regional maintainer of stability that is already more than half a century old. Closer to three quarters of a century if you go back to the end of the Second World War. Maintaining the regional power balance like that for so long makes your repeat claim that America wants to be dominant look absurd.

I probably speak for Cassowary as well as myself when I say (re. your accusation of America being imperialist) "I'll believe it when I see it".
The best known major effort by the US to stabilize your part of the world was called the Vietnam war, and we know what the results were. Over a million people killed, widespread destruction, widespread use of napalm and chemical agents... Stabilization only came after the Vietnamese kicked the Americans out of their country. And even the major nasty of the region, Pol Pot, was only finally dealt with by the Vietnamese, not the Americans. Add to that the strident threats against North Korea, the military support given to the breakaway Chinese province of Taiwan, and you have the true face of the US in Asia. A permanent threat to peace, a hated imperial power. If Australia and Singapore choose to assist the US in its aggressive ventures, you shouldn't be surprised if you become as generally disliked as the US.

Jim the Moron
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:17 am

The US actions in Vietnam were not based on efforts to "stabilize" the region, but on fuzzy-minded response to communist incursions, "justified" by perceived obligations to the corrupt South Vietnam government.

Isn't it amazing how interesting conversations (in this instance oil economics) often devolve into tired old trite discussions on Vietnam War topics?

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cassowary
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by cassowary » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:32 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:58 am
[
The best known major effort by the US to stabilize your part of the world was called the Vietnam war, and we know what the results were. Over a million people killed, widespread destruction, widespread use of napalm and chemical agents... Stabilization only came after the Vietnamese kicked the Americans out of their country. And even the major nasty of the region, Pol Pot, was only finally dealt with by the Vietnamese, not the Americans. Add to that the strident threats against North Korea, the military support given to the breakaway Chinese province of Taiwan, and you have the true face of the US in Asia. A permanent threat to peace, a hated imperial power. If Australia and Singapore choose to assist the US in its aggressive ventures, you shouldn't be surprised if you become as generally disliked as the US.
The US may not have saved South Vietnam from communism but their 10-year effort saved the rest of SE Asia because it gave them time to put their houses in order. This is also the opinion of Lee Kuan Yew:
In his autobiography, Lee Kuan Yew says Singapore and other Asian countries were saved from communism by the Vietnam War:

"Although American intervention failed in Vietnam, it bought time for the rest of Southeast Asia. In 1965, when the US military moved massively into South Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and the Philippines faced internal threats from armed communist insurgencies . . . and the communist underground was still active in Singapore. . . America's action [in Vietnam] enabled non-communist Southeast Asia to put their own houses in order. By 1975, they were in better shape to stand up to the communists. Had there been no US intervention, the will of these countries to resist them would have melted and Southeast Asia would most likely have gone communist. The prosperous emerging market economies of ASEAN were nurtured during the Vietnam War years."7
So I appreciate US efforts in Vietnam. The deaths were mainly caused by the Socialists/Communist. It is their fault, not the US, who was only trying to save the South Vietnam. The US did its best. There was even an election in S Vietnam in the midst of war. So failure to cheer the US in Vietnam means that you are for the totalitarian north Vietnamese.

I also like to point out that the US and allies saved South Korea during the Korean War. Compare the two halves of Korea. The South is prosperous and democratic while the north is starving and ruled by a ruthless. If you don't suuport what the US did in Korea then I conclude that you prefer dictatorships.

The Taiwanese appreciate US support. Otherwise, their democracy is finished. Again, failure to approve US support for Taiwan means that you prefer authoritarian governments.

I think deep inside, Sertorio is a totalitarian in disguise. He loves the most brutal dictators.

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Sertorio
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:06 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:17 am
The US actions in Vietnam were not based on efforts to "stabilize" the region, but on fuzzy-minded response to communist incursions, "justified" by perceived obligations to the corrupt South Vietnam government.

Isn't it amazing how interesting conversations (in this instance oil economics) often devolve into tired old trite discussions on Vietnam War topics?
I was reacting to Neverfail's post...

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Sertorio
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:08 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:32 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:58 am
[
The best known major effort by the US to stabilize your part of the world was called the Vietnam war, and we know what the results were. Over a million people killed, widespread destruction, widespread use of napalm and chemical agents... Stabilization only came after the Vietnamese kicked the Americans out of their country. And even the major nasty of the region, Pol Pot, was only finally dealt with by the Vietnamese, not the Americans. Add to that the strident threats against North Korea, the military support given to the breakaway Chinese province of Taiwan, and you have the true face of the US in Asia. A permanent threat to peace, a hated imperial power. If Australia and Singapore choose to assist the US in its aggressive ventures, you shouldn't be surprised if you become as generally disliked as the US.
The US may not have saved South Vietnam from communism but their 10-year effort saved the rest of SE Asia because it gave them time to put their houses in order. This is also the opinion of Lee Kuan Yew:
In his autobiography, Lee Kuan Yew says Singapore and other Asian countries were saved from communism by the Vietnam War:

"Although American intervention failed in Vietnam, it bought time for the rest of Southeast Asia. In 1965, when the US military moved massively into South Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and the Philippines faced internal threats from armed communist insurgencies . . . and the communist underground was still active in Singapore. . . America's action [in Vietnam] enabled non-communist Southeast Asia to put their own houses in order. By 1975, they were in better shape to stand up to the communists. Had there been no US intervention, the will of these countries to resist them would have melted and Southeast Asia would most likely have gone communist. The prosperous emerging market economies of ASEAN were nurtured during the Vietnam War years."7
So I appreciate US efforts in Vietnam. The deaths were mainly caused by the Socialists/Communist. It is their fault, not the US, who was only trying to save the South Vietnam. The US did its best. There was even an election in S Vietnam in the midst of war. So failure to cheer the US in Vietnam means that you are for the totalitarian north Vietnamese.

I also like to point out that the US and allies saved South Korea during the Korean War. Compare the two halves of Korea. The South is prosperous and democratic while the north is starving and ruled by a ruthless. If you don't suuport what the US did in Korea then I conclude that you prefer dictatorships.

The Taiwanese appreciate US support. Otherwise, their democracy is finished. Again, failure to approve US support for Taiwan means that you prefer authoritarian governments.

I think deep inside, Sertorio is a totalitarian in disguise. He loves the most brutal dictators.
You are as clear minded on what politics are concerned, as a Seventh Day Adventist is clear minded on what religion is concerned...

Jim the Moron
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Re: Trump's Revenge: US floods EU with oil

Post by Jim the Moron » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:10 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:06 am
Jim the Moron wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:17 am
The US actions in Vietnam were not based on efforts to "stabilize" the region, but on fuzzy-minded response to communist incursions, "justified" by perceived obligations to the corrupt South Vietnam government.

Isn't it amazing how interesting conversations (in this instance oil economics) often devolve into tired old trite discussions on Vietnam War topics?
I was reacting to Neverfail's post...
Understood . . .

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cassowary
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by cassowary » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:30 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:08 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:32 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:58 am
[
The best known major effort by the US to stabilize your part of the world was called the Vietnam war, and we know what the results were. Over a million people killed, widespread destruction, widespread use of napalm and chemical agents... Stabilization only came after the Vietnamese kicked the Americans out of their country. And even the major nasty of the region, Pol Pot, was only finally dealt with by the Vietnamese, not the Americans. Add to that the strident threats against North Korea, the military support given to the breakaway Chinese province of Taiwan, and you have the true face of the US in Asia. A permanent threat to peace, a hated imperial power. If Australia and Singapore choose to assist the US in its aggressive ventures, you shouldn't be surprised if you become as generally disliked as the US.
The US may not have saved South Vietnam from communism but their 10-year effort saved the rest of SE Asia because it gave them time to put their houses in order. This is also the opinion of Lee Kuan Yew:
In his autobiography, Lee Kuan Yew says Singapore and other Asian countries were saved from communism by the Vietnam War:

"Although American intervention failed in Vietnam, it bought time for the rest of Southeast Asia. In 1965, when the US military moved massively into South Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, and the Philippines faced internal threats from armed communist insurgencies . . . and the communist underground was still active in Singapore. . . America's action [in Vietnam] enabled non-communist Southeast Asia to put their own houses in order. By 1975, they were in better shape to stand up to the communists. Had there been no US intervention, the will of these countries to resist them would have melted and Southeast Asia would most likely have gone communist. The prosperous emerging market economies of ASEAN were nurtured during the Vietnam War years."7
So I appreciate US efforts in Vietnam. The deaths were mainly caused by the Socialists/Communist. It is their fault, not the US, who was only trying to save the South Vietnam. The US did its best. There was even an election in S Vietnam in the midst of war. So failure to cheer the US in Vietnam means that you are for the totalitarian north Vietnamese.

I also like to point out that the US and allies saved South Korea during the Korean War. Compare the two halves of Korea. The South is prosperous and democratic while the north is starving and ruled by a ruthless. If you don't suuport what the US did in Korea then I conclude that you prefer dictatorships.

The Taiwanese appreciate US support. Otherwise, their democracy is finished. Again, failure to approve US support for Taiwan means that you prefer authoritarian governments.

I think deep inside, Sertorio is a totalitarian in disguise. He loves the most brutal dictators.
You are as clear minded on what politics are concerned, as a Seventh Day Adventist is clear minded on what religion is concerned...
Aha. You resorted to an insult. That means you got no refutation to what I said. I won.

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Sertorio
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Re: globalising your economy enhances wealth but diminishes national security.

Post by Sertorio » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:05 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:30 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:08 am

You are as clear minded on what politics are concerned, as a Seventh Day Adventist is clear minded on what religion is concerned...
Aha. You resorted to an insult. That means you got no refutation to what I said. I won.
I didn't realize that for you calling someone a Seventh Day Adventist was an insult... :D

My point was that Seventh Day Adventists are as fanatic as far as their faith is concerned, as you are on what your political views are concerned... Like them, you have long given up on thinking before stating any views...

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