why Russia is no economic superpower.

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Sertorio
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by Sertorio » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:00 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:48 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:41 am
I know, I know! RT is the source of this information, so it must all be fake news and propaganda... :D
Well, if the Russian government says that the Russian government doing a great job, it must be true. :roll:
There are in there some facts and figures which could be checked. I just don't think it is worthwhile, as those figures seem quite acceptable.

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cassowary
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by cassowary » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am
You are right about Russian nukes. That is all it has got. Russian economy will grow weaker as Trump ramps up oil and gas production. Technology is also improving green energy.
You're giving credit to Trump for things that ramped up during the Obama adminstration. (And even then, remember, remember, remember that the president is not an emperor!)
I don't understand. ObumA weakened the position of the US and the more civilized world. Fatty Kim, Putin, Putin, Xi and the Ayatollahs were emboldened and increased their positions.

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cassowary
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by cassowary » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:18 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:17 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am

You are right about Russian nukes. That is all it has got. Russian economy will grow weaker as Trump ramps up oil and gas production. Technology is also improving green energy.
Russia is the only country on earth with the means to wipe the USA off the map.

That however only inspires dread of Russia. It does not allow this country to command respect abroad.

As for green energy; the way things are going that it likely to make oil irrelevant with the passage of time (and Russia with it even more so.)

I find that imbalance between the destructive power held by Russia and the country's apparent lack of the means to do any good very discomforting.
Putin thinks Russian ability to dominate others is a sign of greatness to his country. The people's well being can be sacrificed for that aim. His role model is Peter the Great. Peter put his people into bone crushing taxation. He forced people into his army under brutal discipline. But he ended up defeating the Swedes and Peter is known to us as "the Great". You must understand how Putin thinks.

This is the advantage a dictatorship has over democracy. Peter squeezed his people to turn his country into a great power. Emperor Shih Huang Ti did the same to build the Wall and unify China. Democracies cannot do what they did. Too unpopular. Putin and Xi both know their histories.

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cassowary
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Putin backs down

Post by cassowary » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:38 am

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... rike-looms

The US and Russia are talking on the hotline. US missiles will make a loud noise but won't do much damage. Everything is agreed between them. The Syrians and Russians have time to move assets and personnel.
Last edited by cassowary on Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:06 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am
You are right about Russian nukes. That is all it has got. Russian economy will grow weaker as Trump ramps up oil and gas production. Technology is also improving green energy.
You're giving credit to Trump for things that ramped up during the Obama adminstration. (And even then, remember, remember, remember that the president is not an emperor!)
I don't understand. ObumA weakened the position of the US and the more civilized world. Fatty Kim, Putin, Putin, Xi and the Ayatollahs were emboldened and increased their positions.
You referred to the U.S. ramping up oil and gas production and paying more attention to alternative energy sources. That didn't start last year, that's been going on for a while now.

Also, it's interesting you complain about how the Obama administration "weakened the position of the US" but then immediately say that "Putin thinks Russian ability to dominate others is a sign of greatness to his country." Pick one.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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cassowary
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by cassowary » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:11 am

Steve,

The US does not dominate others. US bases in Europe and Asia are with the consent of the nations there. Can we say the same for Russian backing of Assad?

US presence is to deter agression of Poison Putin, Fatty Kim and others. When oBUMa withdrew missiles from Europe, didn't he weakened defence of Europe?

When he released billions to Iran, didn't the money go to Hizbollah and so weaken Israel? The US under Trump is not enhancing US dominance like what Putin is trying to do. The US under Trump is enhancing deterrence to the most unsavory people on the planet.

neverfail
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by neverfail » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:10 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am
You are right about Russian nukes. That is all it has got. Russian economy will grow weaker as Trump ramps up oil and gas production. Technology is also improving green energy.
You're giving credit to Trump for things that ramped up during the Obama adminstration. (And even then, remember, remember, remember that the president is not an emperor!)
I don't understand. ObumA weakened the position of the US and the more civilized world. Fatty Kim, Putin, Putin, Xi and the Ayatollahs were emboldened and increased their positions.
Then fracking boom took place during Obama's incumbency. Any environmental restrictions his government might have placed on drilling on Federal lands (alas, state owned and privately owned land were beyond his jurisdiction) such as outlawing it in national parks I submit were a responsible and well justified move to deter environmental vandalism by big oil. Obviously it did not deter the shale oil drillers from transforming America back into an oil and gas surplus country.

Why Cassowary must you always idiotically presume that environmental restrictions are some kind of lefty conspiracy against private enterprise?

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cassowary
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by cassowary » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:49 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am
You are right about Russian nukes. That is all it has got. Russian economy will grow weaker as Trump ramps up oil and gas production. Technology is also improving green energy.
You're giving credit to Trump for things that ramped up during the Obama adminstration. (And even then, remember, remember, remember that the president is not an emperor!)
I don't understand. ObumA weakened the position of the US and the more civilized world. Fatty Kim, Putin, Putin, Xi and the Ayatollahs were emboldened and increased their positions.
Then fracking boom took place during Obama's incumbency. Any environmental restrictions his government might have placed on drilling on Federal lands (alas, state owned and privately owned land were beyond his jurisdiction) such as outlawing it in national parks I submit were a responsible and well justified move to deter environmental vandalism by big oil. Obviously it did not deter the shale oil drillers from transforming America back into an oil and gas surplus country.

Why Cassowary must you always idiotically presume that environmental restrictions are some kind of lefty conspiracy against private enterprise?
Then the fracking boom occurred despite oBUMa's best efforts to stop it. It happened on state and private lands beyond his control. ObumA deserves no credit.

neverfail
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by neverfail » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:47 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:49 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:10 pm
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:05 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:35 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 am
You are right about Russian nukes. That is all it has got. Russian economy will grow weaker as Trump ramps up oil and gas production. Technology is also improving green energy.
You're giving credit to Trump for things that ramped up during the Obama adminstration. (And even then, remember, remember, remember that the president is not an emperor!)
I don't understand. ObumA weakened the position of the US and the more civilized world. Fatty Kim, Putin, Putin, Xi and the Ayatollahs were emboldened and increased their positions.
Then fracking boom took place during Obama's incumbency. Any environmental restrictions his government might have placed on drilling on Federal lands (alas, state owned and privately owned land were beyond his jurisdiction) such as outlawing it in national parks I submit were a responsible and well justified move to deter environmental vandalism by big oil. Obviously it did not deter the shale oil drillers from transforming America back into an oil and gas surplus country.

Why Cassowary must you always idiotically presume that environmental restrictions are some kind of lefty conspiracy against private enterprise?
Then the fracking boom occurred despite oBUMa's best efforts to stop it. It happened on state and private lands beyond his control. ObumA deserves no credit.
Very well cassowary - I will not disagree with you on that. Given the limits (constitutional and otherwise) it would have been surprising if any POTUS could have done anything significant to impede the fracking boom even had he wanted to. In any case please desist from assuming that Obama (and/or his party) had anything other than a deep concern for protecting the environment (especially re. carbon emissions and global warming) motivating the quixotic outlawing of any new drilling on federal land. You do not need to be a socialist to deplore some of the ruthless, arrogant practices of corporate big business (and their irresponsible lack of concern for anything apart from the corporate bottom line) .
................................................................................................................

Cassowary, I wish to spring the following question on to you - though I have already discussed this in another thread. Why has not fracking for oil and gas in shale deposits NOT taken off globally by now?

There are extensive shale beds in the north of Canada known to contain these hydrocarbons and even here in Australia we have known oil shale beds underlying the desert regions of northern South Australia estimated to be at least as large, very likely bigger, than the legendary Baakar shale beds under South Dakota in the US. Yet nothing is being done to develop these into producing oilfields. Why not?

As I mentioned before the Baakar shale beds (and other, lesser ones within the US) could be profitably developed only because they were being done under the most favourable conditions possible. Among other things the US had/has a well developed delivery grid of pipelines close at hand to deliver these hydrocarbons to the world's 2nd biggest, hungriest market (just a few years ago the biggest) after the PRC.

The north of Canada lacks this and the cost of building this up, especially in the short term, would be horrendous. Likewise, not only does our central Australian outback lack these facilities but fracking uses up a lot of water. The shale beds underlie a vast region of waterless desert. The cost of delivering the water along with building the delivery infrastructure would likewise be so high as to make the exploiting the hydrocarbons below ground unprofitable. At least while global oil prices remain as low as they are now and likely to remain into the foreseeable future.

I have not even mentioned places like the Russian Federation or Africa. There must be some hydrocarbon rich shale beds in these places awaiting discovery. But even if global warming does not kill us all off first, it is still likely to be a long time before any of these are touched; for the same reasons as Australia and Canada with the addendum that shady government adds the factor of endemic corruption to make long term private enterprise commitment to development unacceptably risky.

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cassowary
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Re: why Russia is no economic superpower.

Post by cassowary » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:06 am

Wow Neverfail. You have wide and deep knowledge over a wide range of subjects. I am impressed.

I often wondered this question as to why fracking has not spread elsewhere. I had vaguely put it down to environmental concerns. Thanks for adding to my store of knowledge.

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