Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

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Doc
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Doc » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:32 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:21 am
The whole thing is a giant clusterfuck that any great power with sense would avoid like the plague. When it comes to the Ayatollahs vs. the House of Saud, all I can do is hope they both lose.
I suspect this is all going away soon.
Why?
Bolton
Well he'll only have a few months to do it.
I agree.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:12 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:32 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:21 am
The whole thing is a giant clusterfuck that any great power with sense would avoid like the plague. When it comes to the Ayatollahs vs. the House of Saud, all I can do is hope they both lose.
I suspect this is all going away soon.
Why?
Bolton
Well he'll only have a few months to do it.
I agree.
Yes, well, hopefully not because his insane approach starts a third world war....
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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Doc
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Doc » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:52 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:12 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm
Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:32 pm


I suspect this is all going away soon.
Why?
Bolton
Well he'll only have a few months to do it.
I agree.
Yes, well, hopefully not because his insane approach starts a third world war....
When Trump took over the US had little to no deterrence militarily. No one took us seriously. Bolton as far as I can tell intends to built the deterence back up. Dangerous but more dangerous for bad actors thinking they can do anything they like without fear of retribution.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Milo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:16 am

Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:52 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:12 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm


Why?
Bolton
Well he'll only have a few months to do it.
I agree.
Yes, well, hopefully not because his insane approach starts a third world war....
When Trump took over the US had little to no deterrence militarily. No one took us seriously. Bolton as far as I can tell intends to built the deterence back up. Dangerous but more dangerous for bad actors thinking they can do anything they like without fear of retribution.
So, you really believe that?

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Doc
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Doc » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:25 am

Milo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:16 am
Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:52 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:12 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am


Bolton
Well he'll only have a few months to do it.
I agree.
Yes, well, hopefully not because his insane approach starts a third world war....
When Trump took over the US had little to no deterrence militarily. No one took us seriously. Bolton as far as I can tell intends to built the deterence back up. Dangerous but more dangerous for bad actors thinking they can do anything they like without fear of retribution.
So, you really believe that?
For deterrence to work the other side has to believe you will use it. Obama drew a red line in Syria and did not back it up. The Result is that Russian troops are now in Syria. IF it had been Nixon instead of Obama US troops would have been preparing for WWIII when Russia started sending in Troops BUt of course it would not have gotten that far to begin with as Russia is not the Soviet Union
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Milo » Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:11 am

Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:25 am
Milo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 2:16 am
Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:52 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:12 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:07 am


Well he'll only have a few months to do it.
I agree.
Yes, well, hopefully not because his insane approach starts a third world war....
When Trump took over the US had little to no deterrence militarily. No one took us seriously. Bolton as far as I can tell intends to built the deterence back up. Dangerous but more dangerous for bad actors thinking they can do anything they like without fear of retribution.
So, you really believe that?
For deterrence to work the other side has to believe you will use it. Obama drew a red line in Syria and did not back it up. The Result is that Russian troops are now in Syria. IF it had been Nixon instead of Obama US troops would have been preparing for WWIII when Russia started sending in Troops BUt of course it would not have gotten that far to begin with as Russia is not the Soviet Union
So, Bolton will bomb the KSA, or Yemen?

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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by armchair_pundit » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:55 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:11 am

So, Bolton will bomb the KSA, or Yemen?
Oh come on, you know the answer to that! :mrgreen:


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Alexis
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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Alexis » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:30 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm
Why?
Bolton
I'm not sure Trump will let Bolton loose on NK and Iran. He may be preparing to use him as a bogey to scare Kim into making more concessions.

On the other hand, if Trump allows Bolton to control his foreign policy, then it may be game over for US international leadership.

A nuclear war in Asia, started by the US, complete with millions of South Koreans and Japanese dead and possibly hundreds of thousands of Americans would definitely destroy the two most precious assets of US influence:
- Willingness of Japanese, South Koreans and most European countries to be protected by US military, and acquiesce to US influence on them in return (these countries total 30% of world GDP)
- Even more important, willingness of American population to intervene overseas

A full-fledged US-Iran war, started by the US, complete with blockade of Gulf and global economic crisis, would not be sure to destroy those assets, but would certainly damage them greatly.

Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:25 am
Obama drew a red line in Syria and did not back it up. The Result is that Russian troops are now in Syria. IF it had been Nixon instead of Obama US troops would have been preparing for WWIII when Russia started sending in Troops BUt of course it would not have gotten that far to begin with as Russia is not the Soviet Union
I may have too high an opinion of Richard Nixon, but I can hardly picture him risking a war against Russia - even the present diminished version compared with the Soviet Union - on behalf of a bunch of Jihadists, including some from the very organization that killed 3,000 Americans in 2001.

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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by Doc » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:23 am

Alexis wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:30 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm
Why?
Bolton
I'm not sure Trump will let Bolton loose on NK and Iran. He may be preparing to use him as a bogey to scare Kim into making more concessions.

On the other hand, if Trump allows Bolton to control his foreign policy, then it may be game over for US international leadership.

A nuclear war in Asia, started by the US, complete with millions of South Koreans and Japanese dead and possibly hundreds of thousands of Americans would definitely destroy the two most precious assets of US influence:
- Willingness of Japanese, South Koreans and most European countries to be protected by US military, and acquiesce to US influence on them in return (these countries total 30% of world GDP)
- Even more important, willingness of American population to intervene overseas

A full-fledged US-Iran war, started by the US, complete with blockade of Gulf and global economic crisis, would not be sure to destroy those assets, but would certainly damage them greatly.
Bolton has two reputations One from working in government through several jobs. The other from Fox news appearances.

Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:25 am
Obama drew a red line in Syria and did not back it up. The Result is that Russian troops are now in Syria. IF it had been Nixon instead of Obama US troops would have been preparing for WWIII when Russia started sending in Troops BUt of course it would not have gotten that far to begin with as Russia is not the Soviet Union
I may have too high an opinion of Richard Nixon, but I can hardly picture him risking a war against Russia - even the present diminished version compared with the Soviet Union - on behalf of a bunch of Jihadists, including some from the very organization that killed 3,000 Americans in 2001.
https://www.csmonitor.com/1993/1103/03191.html
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Iran via its proxy just shot multiple missiles at Riyadh Saudi Arabia

Post by cassowary » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:10 pm

Alexis wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:30 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:00 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:05 pm
Why?
Bolton
I'm not sure Trump will let Bolton loose on NK and Iran. He may be preparing to use him as a bogey to scare Kim into making more concessions.

On the other hand, if Trump allows Bolton to control his foreign policy, then it may be game over for US international leadership.

A nuclear war in Asia, started by the US, complete with millions of South Koreans and Japanese dead and possibly hundreds of thousands of Americans would definitely destroy the two most precious assets of US influence:
- Willingness of Japanese, South Koreans and most European countries to be protected by US military, and acquiesce to US influence on them in return (these countries total 30% of world GDP)
- Even more important, willingness of American population to intervene overseas

A full-fledged US-Iran war, started by the US, complete with blockade of Gulf and global economic crisis, would not be sure to destroy those assets, but would certainly damage them greatly.

Doc wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:25 am
Obama drew a red line in Syria and did not back it up. The Result is that Russian troops are now in Syria. IF it had been Nixon instead of Obama US troops would have been preparing for WWIII when Russia started sending in Troops BUt of course it would not have gotten that far to begin with as Russia is not the Soviet Union
I may have too high an opinion of Richard Nixon, but I can hardly picture him risking a war against Russia - even the present diminished version compared with the Soviet Union - on behalf of a bunch of Jihadists, including some from the very organization that killed 3,000 Americans in 2001.
I have always thought that Europe is rich enough to defend itself from Russia. Please spend more money on your military so that the US can shift its scarce resources to defend Asia from the behemoth, China who want to reduce all of us into vassal states as in ancient times.

Also, Europe should forget about Paris Accord so that it can increase its energy production by fracking. In that way, you don't have to depend on Persian Gulf oil just in case Iran blocks passage of the Straits of Hormuz.

The world is full of bad guys wanting to return to past glories. Putin wants Russia to once again dominate the newly democratic E Europeans. Iran dreams of reviving the ancient Persian Empire and dominate the Mid East. ISIS yearns for the return of the Caliphate which once ruled from Spain to India. Xi wants to return China to its ancient glory of reducing E Asia into its vassals. Erdogan dreams of a new Ottoman Empire.

Only Europe can defend itself without American help against its regional dreamer - Putin. But it does not have the will. It rather spends on its lavish welfare state.

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