ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

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neverfail
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by neverfail » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:30 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:15 pm
in 1849 Slavery was pretty much doomed as it was not profitable. Then the cotton gin was invented making slavery profitable again.
Sorry Doc, but it seems that it was in 1794 that Eli Whitney patented the cotton gin.

https://www.archives.gov/education/less ... tton%20gin).

It would seem that before Whitney's invention came into widespread use to make the cotton saleable slaves had to be organised to the tedious task of hand picking the seeds from each and every cotton ball. That limited the amount of cotton that any planter could grow, the task being time consuming. The gin broke that logjam. As long as enough land was available the sky was now potential the limit in cotton production.

Producing something makes no sense if there is no market for it but the corresponding factor that turned cotton into a boomtime crop was the mechanisation of cotton weaving and spinning both in old England and in New England (especially in the former, which became The South's primary market). In England, especially in the vicinity of Manchester, this had been taking place step by step over the 18th century from about 1730 onward but of course the availability of vast amounts of cheap cotton fibre unleashed by the cotton gin and expansion of cotton growing in the American South broke another logjam and encouraged further innovation and enterprise in this sector.

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cassowary
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by cassowary » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:49 pm

The cotton gin should make slave labor redundant or at least less essential. At some point, mechanisation meant that cheap labour was no longer needed. If the profit margin from employing slave labor is negative, then why have slaves? With more and more mechanisation, the profit margin from employing slaves shrank to an extent that moral considerations matter more.

When did that happen? Was it before or after the Civil War? You still needed cheap labor to pick the cotton balls from the plant, of course. Since the gin was invented by Eli Whitney in 1794, it would seem that by the Civil War, slave labor was no longer needed. Or at least it was no longer so essential. Slavery was abolished in 1833 in Britain by a combination of moral considerations and the lack of practical necessity. Maybe it was inertia that kept slavery going in the American South.
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Doc
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by Doc » Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:27 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:30 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:15 pm
in 1849 Slavery was pretty much doomed as it was not profitable. Then the cotton gin was invented making slavery profitable again.
Sorry Doc, but it seems that it was in 1794 that Eli Whitney patented the cotton gin.

https://www.archives.gov/education/less ... tton%20gin).

It would seem that before Whitney's invention came into widespread use to make the cotton saleable slaves had to be organised to the tedious task of hand picking the seeds from each and every cotton ball. That limited the amount of cotton that any planter could grow, the task being time consuming. The gin broke that logjam. As long as enough land was available the sky was now potential the limit in cotton production.

Producing something makes no sense if there is no market for it but the corresponding factor that turned cotton into a boomtime crop was the mechanisation of cotton weaving and spinning both in old England and in New England (especially in the former, which became The South's primary market). In England, especially in the vicinity of Manchester, this had been taking place step by step over the 18th century from about 1730 onward but of course the availability of vast amounts of cheap cotton fibre unleashed by the cotton gin and expansion of cotton growing in the American South broke another logjam and encouraged further innovation and enterprise in this sector.
Yeah quite right. I don't know why I put 1849. Anyway the rest is correct.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:07 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:48 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:39 am
https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-esg-pro ... _lead_pos8

The answer is ‘no’.

ESG stands for Environmental, Social and Governance. Black Rock asset management giant and others begun pressing companies in 2018 to include environment, social and governance issues as part of their corporate goals. Ridiculous! Companies are meant to do one thing and one thing only - make profits for shareholders. And not try to make the board of directors more diversified by including women, gays or minorities. Nor is it supposed to look after the environment.

Those that distract management with other goals were discovered to have done worse by those who just were laser focussed on making profits. Common sense.
Slavery was good for the plantation economies of the 18th century, so why condemn it?...
Knowing you, I expect you wouldn't.
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lzzrdgrrl
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by lzzrdgrrl » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:04 pm

Image
I'm not a midwit, I'm a demiderp. Says so on the certificate which I just bought.....'>....

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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by Doc » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:43 pm

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:04 pm
Image
LIke impossible burgers all these will get is crickets.
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a1 ... -approval/
The Meatless “Impossible Burger” Fails to Get FDA Approval
​Their secret sauce gives the patty a meaty taste and bloody look—but is it safe to eat?

BY ALISA HRUSTICPUBLISHED: AUG 9, 2017
SAVE ARTICLE
impossible burger fails FDA approvalpinterest icon
INSTAGRAM.COM/IMPOSSIBLE FOODS
For the past year, the “Impossible Burger,” a vegan burger that resembles meat, has been popping up on menus across New York City, California, and Texas.

The company’s goal isn’t to convert meat-lovers into vegans, though. Their mission is environmental change, since they claim the creation of their burgers uses 95 percent less land and 74 percent less water than your favorite beef-based patties, sans any artificial hormones or antibiotics. (Check out our full review of the Impossible Burger here.)

But the burger, which even mimics “beefy blood” with plant-based ingredients, is struggling to gain the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) stamp of approval, The New York Times reports.

While that secret sauce may give their patty a meaty taste and bloody look, what it’s made of is raising some questions. The sauce utilizes soy leghemoglobin, which is found in soybean plant roots. Impossible Foods uses genetically engineered yeast to create it in the company’s lab, which has never been consumed by humans before and could be a potential allergen, the NYT notes.


Grill The Perfect Burger
by Men's Health US
Play Video

“F.D.A. believes the arguments presented, individually and collectively, do not establish the safety of soy leghemoglobin for consumption, nor do they point to a general recognition of safety,” FDA officials wrote in a memo shared with the NYT.

To be fair, the FDA didn’t state that soy leghemoglobin is unsafe, either, so Impossible Foods is free to continue selling its burger. Plus, the FDA’s approval is not required for new ingredients and companies are allowed run their own tests to determine safety. If the FDA truly believed the sauce to be a public health risk based on their findings, they could yank the burger from menus if necessary.

“The Impossible Burger is safe,” Rachel Konrad, a spokeswoman for Impossible Foods, said in a statement. “A key ingredient of the Impossible Burger—heme—is an ancient molecule found in every living organism.”

Kondrad told the NYT the burger is “entirely safe to eat” and “fully compliant with all FDA regulations.” The company would just like to take any extra steps to ensure full transparency with their customers. In a statement released yesterday, Impossible Foods highlighted the extensive testing of their ingredients.

“A panel of food safety and allergy experts at three universities unanimously reaffirmed last week that soy leghemoglobin, a protein from the roots of soy plants, is generally recognized as safe, or ‘GRAS.’ GRAS means a food is safe to be consumed under U.S. regulations. This is the second time the expert panel has unanimously found that soy leghemoglobin is safe. In 2014, the food safety and allergy experts at the University of Nebraska, University of Wisconsin and Virginia Commonwealth University found that soy leghemoglobin is GRAS,” the statement reads.

We get it, you want to know what’s in your food. The best way to do that? Make your own damn veggie burger if you want to skip the beef. This recipe should do the trick.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:55 am

Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:43 pm
LIke impossible burgers all these will get is crickets.
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a1 ... -approval/
You might want to find an article from this decade. Nowadays you can ever get Impossible Whoppers from Burger King.
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Doc
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Re: ESG investing gives poor returns relative to those who stick to the knitting.

Post by Doc » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:24 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:55 am
Doc wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:43 pm
LIke impossible burgers all these will get is crickets.
https://www.menshealth.com/nutrition/a1 ... -approval/
You might want to find an article from this decade. Nowadays you can ever get Impossible Whoppers from Burger King.
It was a joke steve.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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