Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:19 pm

Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:56 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:41 am
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:35 am
An armed and trained professional was at the scene and didn't stop it.
Brave Sir Robin ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("I never!")
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly he chickened out.
("You're lying!")
Swiftly taking to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
Bravest of the brave, Sir Robin!
This is the great myth underlying the entire American gun culture, that some steelie eyed gun owner will shoot the bad guy dead. It's a load of crap.
And yet, compare the massacre at Virginia Tech with the would-be massacre at Appalachian School of Law around the same time period. The former, on a gun free campus, was a bloodbath. The latter was stopped by a steely-eyed gun owner. So whatever argument one might make, the "load of crap" one is pretty easy to disprove.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: http://newworld.ac

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cassowary
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Re: Trump supports letting teachers and coaches carry guns in school

Post by cassowary » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:44 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:30 am
Even experienced shooters hit what they are shooting at a fraction of the time and that means it's more likely for a bystander to be shot when guns are employed.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/ ... uation.pdf

This is just the NRA trying to sell more guns.
But the deterrence value will lead to a sharp decline of school shootings. This will save more lives on a net basis. Would someone intent on killing people pick a school knowing that there are 10 armed staff there? The positive factor of deterrence will far outweigh the probability of accidental shootings in the even that there is a killer who is willing to take on the odds of say 10 armed teachers and coaches.

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cassowary
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by cassowary » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:48 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:53 am
armchair_pundit wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:48 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:06 am
The Second Amendment when I read a copy of it last conferred no such universal right to gun ownership but rather a public DUTY on citizens to be prepared to defend the country in organised militias when necessary. The gun ownership was intended merely as the means to that end. Modern US gun owners are NOT organised into militias to defend the USA so the 2nd Amendment has been misrepresented (probably by some twisted constitutional court judgement in the past) from a national defence policy when the US Republic was young into today's hideous licence to kill.
That's the argument by the anti-gun crowd. I heard it before. You can argue till the cows come home with the pro-gun lobby on this constitutional interpretation. Clever lawyers than both of us have not settled this.
Its not the pro-gun lobby's interpretation. It is the Constitution of the United States backed up by a SCOTUS decision against relelentless challenges by those wishing to strip away a Constitutional Right, Alinsky style.
District of Columbia v. Heller
District of Columbia v. Heller, is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes...
Killing other human beings is a God given right to the people of the US...
No it isn't. But the right to bear arms is a constitutional right, so says the Supreme Court. DC vs Heller. Hat tip to Armchair Pundit.

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Doc
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by Doc » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:53 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:10 am
Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:51 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:12 am

The US should be totally isolated and prevented from having any contacts with the normal world until it becomes a more civilized place...
You are right The world is a very uncivilized place. The US should go back to its isolationist roots until the barbarians sort out their differences or they go to hell.
Fine with me. The result will be the same: a more peaceful world without American wars...
That was the other option after 911.
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” … George Orwell

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cassowary
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by cassowary » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:08 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:19 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:53 am

District of Columbia v. Heller
District of Columbia v. Heller, is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes...
Killing other human beings is a God given right to the people of the US...
It moves you to doubt the wisdom of their Supreme Court, doesn't it?
[/quote]

It depends on whether the judge is a Republican or Democrat. At the moment, 5 of the judges in the Supreme Court are appointed by Republican Presidents and 4 by Democrats. So there won't be any change to this ruling. DC vs Heller can be overturned by a future court. But not now. So the practical quick fix is to turn schools into hard targets instead of the left's ban all guns approach.

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Sertorio
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by Sertorio » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:09 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:08 pm
DC vs Heller can be overturned by a future court. But not now. So the practical quick fix is to turn schools into hard targets instead of the left's ban all guns approach.
Interesting statement, which may be used in any way one wants. But the "hard target" idea is pure lunacy. Why not drafting all pupils, give them weapons and let them shoot any trespassers? In matter of fact one could draft the whole population of the US, subject it to martial law, and shoot on sight any person breaking the law... Germany had once some nice ideas about that which the US could copy:

Image

Or, if you prefer, you could use the following model:

Image
Last edited by Sertorio on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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cassowary
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by cassowary » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:13 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:09 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:08 pm
DC vs Heller can be overturned by a future court. But not now. So the practical quick fix is to turn schools into hard targets instead of the left's ban all guns approach.
Interesting statement, which may be used in any way one wants. But the "hard target" idea is pure lunacy. Why not drafting all pupils, give them weapons and let them shoot any trespassers? In matter of fact one could draft the whole population of the US, subject it to martial law, and shoot on sight any person breaking the law... Germany had once some nice ideas about that which the US could copy:
Ono, the US can't implement Nazi ideas. Nazis were Socialists. The US is not despite the best efforts of the Democratic Party. Only Socialists come up with these murderous ideas.

Why Nazism was Socialism and why Socialism is totalitarian

Image
Last edited by cassowary on Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sertorio
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by Sertorio » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:15 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:13 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:09 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:08 pm
DC vs Heller can be overturned by a future court. But not now. So the practical quick fix is to turn schools into hard targets instead of the left's ban all guns approach.
Interesting statement, which may be used in any way one wants. But the "hard target" idea is pure lunacy. Why not drafting all pupils, give them weapons and let them shoot any trespassers? In matter of fact one could draft the whole population of the US, subject it to martial law, and shoot on sight any person breaking the law... Germany had once some nice ideas about that which the US could copy:
Ono, the US can't implement Nazi ideas. Nazis were Socialists. The US is not despite the best efforts of the Democratic Party. Only Socialists come up with these murderous ideas.
Image

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cassowary
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by cassowary » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:33 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:09 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:08 pm
DC vs Heller can be overturned by a future court. But not now. So the practical quick fix is to turn schools into hard targets instead of the left's ban all guns approach.
Interesting statement, which may be used in any way one wants. But the "hard target" idea is pure lunacy. Why not drafting all pupils, give them weapons and let them shoot any trespassers? In matter of fact one could draft the whole population of the US, subject it to martial law, and shoot on sight any person breaking the law... Germany had once some nice ideas about that which the US could copy:

Image
Funny that you mentioned Hitler. Here is what he said:
The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing.
11 April 1942.
... Hitler

Now if only the Jews and others were armed, things might have been different. At least, they can shoot back instead of heading straight to the ovens of Austrich. So the 2nd Amendment makes it difficult for an American Hitler to rise up.

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Sertorio
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Re: cursed be the US gun lobby!

Post by Sertorio » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:44 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:33 am

Now if only the Jews and others were armed, things might have been different. At least, they can shoot back instead of heading straight to the ovens of Austrich. So the 2nd Amendment makes it difficult for an American Hitler to rise up.
Does it? To me Trump is a sort of the feeble minded's Hitler...

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