Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

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neverfail
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 pm

Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:00 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:43 pm

So, he wasn't an individual, he was a "government"?
Well he did protect himself. Only problem is that his job as a government employee was to protect others.
You are absolutely right Doc. He would not be the only law enforcement officer in your country by any means to do similar.

(They accuse this deputy sheriff of cowardice yet I wonder whether it was prudence that moved him not to go in and tackle the gunman. He was, after all, the only law enforcement officer on the scene and had no back up support. He may have calculated that had he gone in and been gunned down by the madman, the teachers and students would have been no better off; and he would have lost his life anyhow.)

But do you really believe that armed amateurs inside the school could have done any better?

What I can detect in your country is a widespread lack of respect for human life. I do not believe that this is unconnected to your national glorification of the gun.

Get rid of those damned guns, for God's sake!

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Doc
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Doc » Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:11 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:00 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:43 pm

So, he wasn't an individual, he was a "government"?
Well he did protect himself. Only problem is that his job as a government employee was to protect others.
You are absolutely right Doc. He would not be the only law enforcement officer in your country by any means to do similar.

(They accuse this deputy sheriff of cowardice yet I wonder whether it was prudence that moved him not to go in and tackle the gunman. He was, after all, the only law enforcement officer on the scene and had no back up support. He may have calculated that had he gone in and been gunned down by the madman, the teachers and students would have been no better off; and he would have lost his life anyhow.)

But do you really believe that armed amateurs inside the school could have done any better?
There was one coach that tackled the shooter He was unarmed and he died.

What I can detect in your country is a widespread lack of respect for human life. I do not believe that this is unconnected to your national glorification of the gun.

Get rid of those damned guns, for God's sake!
The Broward county sheriff's office went to the house Cruz was living in 18 times because of Cruz's behavior. They were warned numerous times about Cruz. Do you know who got those reports? THE SAME COWARD COP THAT SAT OUTSIDE AND WATCHED WHILE CHILDREN WERE BEING SHOT.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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armchair_pundit
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by armchair_pundit » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:57 am

Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:11 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:11 pm
Doc wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:00 pm
Milo wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:43 pm

So, he wasn't an individual, he was a "government"?
Well he did protect himself. Only problem is that his job as a government employee was to protect others.
You are absolutely right Doc. He would not be the only law enforcement officer in your country by any means to do similar.

(They accuse this deputy sheriff of cowardice yet I wonder whether it was prudence that moved him not to go in and tackle the gunman. He was, after all, the only law enforcement officer on the scene and had no back up support. He may have calculated that had he gone in and been gunned down by the madman, the teachers and students would have been no better off; and he would have lost his life anyhow.)

But do you really believe that armed amateurs inside the school could have done any better?
There was one coach that tackled the shooter He was unarmed and he died.

What I can detect in your country is a widespread lack of respect for human life. I do not believe that this is unconnected to your national glorification of the gun.

Get rid of those damned guns, for God's sake!
The Broward county sheriff's office went to the house Cruz was living in 18 times because of Cruz's behavior. They were warned numerous times about Cruz. Do you know who got those reports? THE SAME COWARD COP THAT SAT OUTSIDE AND WATCHED WHILE CHILDREN WERE BEING SHOT.

Coward County's Sheriffs Department new Uniform Hat

Image


*** best I could find on short notice, I'm sure the photoshp community is hard at work for a more official version...



though one of these originals works just fine

Image

neverfail
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:36 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:11 am


The Broward county sheriff's office went to the house Cruz was living in 18 times because of Cruz's behavior. They were warned numerous times about Cruz. Do you know who got those reports? THE SAME COWARD COP THAT SAT OUTSIDE AND WATCHED WHILE CHILDREN WERE BEING SHOT.
No use vilifying one particular (unsupported) law enforcement officer who found himself in a life-threatening situation and decided not to risk a premature martyrdom for the sake of saving others. Do you really believe that among unofficial armed citizens (like school teachers) there are not likewise plenty of individuals who would likewise place their own livers ahead of sacrificing them (Christ like?) to save others?

Come to think of it: are there not members of the teaching profession with mental health problems likely to one day run amok with blazing firearms?

All of this just evades the issue of ridding America of the firearms to make it a safe, secure place to live in like all other developed Western societies.
............................................................................................

I believe that in your country while city police forces are comprised of appointed, professional law enforces; in the rural and regional counties they still have the entrenched custom of electing their sheriffs and deputy sheriffs. Well, to get elected and stay elected requires the skills of a politician; not that of a policeman. You therefore need not wonder therefore why one particular deputy sheriff in a Florida jurisdiction recently turned out to be big on discretion and very small on gutsy bravado.

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Milo
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Milo » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:06 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:36 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:11 am


The Broward county sheriff's office went to the house Cruz was living in 18 times because of Cruz's behavior. They were warned numerous times about Cruz. Do you know who got those reports? THE SAME COWARD COP THAT SAT OUTSIDE AND WATCHED WHILE CHILDREN WERE BEING SHOT.
No use vilifying one particular (unsupported) law enforcement officer who found himself in a life-threatening situation and decided not to risk a premature martyrdom for the sake of saving others. Do you really believe that among unofficial armed citizens (like school teachers) there are not likewise plenty of individuals who would likewise place their own livers ahead of sacrificing them (Christ like?) to save others?

Come to think of it: are there not members of the teaching profession with mental health problems likely to one day run amok with blazing firearms?

All of this just evades the issue of ridding America of the firearms to make it a safe, secure place to live in like all other developed Western societies.
............................................................................................

I believe that in your country while city police forces are comprised of appointed, professional law enforces; in the rural and regional counties they still have the entrenched custom of electing their sheriffs and deputy sheriffs. Well, to get elected and stay elected requires the skills of a politician; not that of a policeman. You therefore need not wonder therefore why one particular deputy sheriff in a Florida jurisdiction recently turned out to be big on discretion and very small on gutsy bravado.
Exactly right.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:50 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:55 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:03 pm
The right to own a lethal firearm implies the right to use it.
Indeed, and they're used all the time -- as deterrence without any shots being fired. That's by far the most common use for firearms in the U.S. But I suppose discussion of such legitimate uses isn't fodder for foreigners to engage in ceaseless self-congratulatory smugness....
Nothing to do with self-congratulatory smugness Steve. The fact that so many Americans feel they need to carry firearms around even as a "deterrent" to dissuade others from doing them over speaks volumes about the sad and sorry state of American society.
Nice try with the scare quotes, but the statistics on the deterrent use of firearms are very clear.

That said, consider whether your anti-American feeling blinds you to other possibilities, such as that the American penchant for private firearms ownership is simply a cultural difference stemming from the much stronger valuing of individual liberty here than in the rest of the West. And that's not surprising considering that generations of Europeans who value freedom and prosperity left there for a life in the U.S.
neverfail wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:50 pm
Ask yourself "why has no other developed country copied the American example"? The answer is that we get along fine without them. So what sort of insecurity within makes America different?
Referring to "insecurity" in that way is begging the question. But I think you know that.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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neverfail
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:39 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Nice try with the scare quotes, but the statistics on the deterrent use of firearms are very clear.
I can't let you get away with that one Steve!

Well, take another look at the statistics contained in these two bar graphs provided by this link. One is labeled Where do the most people own guns and the other where do the most people die from guns?. The United States stands out way above all other comparable countries so far on both counts it is horrific. How can you credibly claim they act as a deterrent in your country when it is patently clear from the infinitely lower death rates from firearms in countries that do not permit citizens unlimited ownership of firearms that the best "deterrent" of all is simply not to have them?
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm
That said, consider whether your anti-American feeling blinds you to other possibilities, such as that the American penchant for private firearms ownership is simply a cultural difference stemming from the much stronger valuing of individual liberty here than in the rest of the West. And that's not surprising considering that generations of Europeans who value freedom and prosperity left there for a life in the U.S.
No anti-American feelings on my part apart from exasperated bemusement at the sheer stupidity of your policy on gun ownership. I too live in a country populated by generations of immigrants from Europe and can assure you that we value freedom and prosperity as much as anyone, including you Americans. Yet we have never associated this happy state of affairs with private firearms ownership.

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Doc
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Doc » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:50 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:39 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm

Nice try with the scare quotes, but the statistics on the deterrent use of firearms are very clear.
I can't let you get away with that one Steve!

Well, take another look at the statistics contained in these two bar graphs provided by this link. One is labeled Where do the most people own guns and the other where do the most people die from guns?. The United States stands out way above all other comparable countries so far on both counts it is horrific. How can you credibly claim they act as a deterrent in your country when it is patently clear from the infinitely lower death rates from firearms in countries that do not permit citizens unlimited ownership of firearms that the best "deterrent" of all is simply not to have them?
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm
That said, consider whether your anti-American feeling blinds you to other possibilities, such as that the American penchant for private firearms ownership is simply a cultural difference stemming from the much stronger valuing of individual liberty here than in the rest of the West. And that's not surprising considering that generations of Europeans who value freedom and prosperity left there for a life in the U.S.
No anti-American feelings on my part apart from exasperated bemusement at the sheer stupidity of your policy on gun ownership. I too live in a country populated by generations of immigrants from Europe and can assure you that we value freedom and prosperity as much as anyone, including you Americans. Yet we have never associated this happy state of affairs with private firearms ownership.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 1965
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm


This bloke must be a bit loopy.

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Milo
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Milo » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:01 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:47 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:16 pm


This bloke must be a bit loopy.
If he exists.

"These courageous and wise students embody the height of Americanism. They stand for everything that is good and right about the American idea and American democracy. They are the sons and daughters, the brothers and sisters, of every American who cares about the future of our country.

The students — and all of us who support them — are battling huge forces. They are battling mass murderers who have committed heinous crimes before and may, again, unless our leaders come to their senses and take the actions that should have been taken long ago.

The students are battling Russian bots that immediately invaded social media to exploit the mass killing in Florida. It is nauseating to watch Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, who continues his war against America (one about which U.S. intelligence leaders recently warned the Senate Intelligence Committee), employ a system of organized bots that now exploit the murderous attacks against the Florida students."

http://thehill.com/opinion/criminal-jus ... nd-the-nra

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