Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

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Doc
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Doc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:51 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 pm
Milo, the trouble is that the gun lobby has too many members of Congress beholden to it for any serious move to "call in the guns" (i.e. disarm the nation - to bring the US into line with every other OECD member state) initiated by the executive wing of their government to ever succeed.
Most Americans support gun ownership. So I guess that means the US has a democracy problem.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:07 pm

Doc wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:51 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 pm
Milo, the trouble is that the gun lobby has too many members of Congress beholden to it for any serious move to "call in the guns" (i.e. disarm the nation - to bring the US into line with every other OECD member state) initiated by the executive wing of their government to ever succeed.
Most Americans support gun ownership. So I guess that means the US has a democracy problem.
No Doc, just an ignorance problem. That suits the manipulators of public opinion?

How many more mass shootings do you think it will take before majority opinion finally changes for the better?

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armchair_pundit
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by armchair_pundit » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:10 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:07 pm

No Doc, just an ignorance problem. That suits the manipulators of public opinion?

How many more mass shootings do you think it will take before majority opinion finally changes for the better?
NF, you are using the wrong yardstick.

The "ignorance" issues are being addressed by our education system (k-12) and college, where children are now and have been for at least 30 years indoctrinated with liberal/progressive propaganda.

Some don't "swallow" it, but many do and only in their 30s do they start to realize it.

So as to your when question, it will be at least 30 years until we Americans who grew up Free with a real education (not indoctrination) die off.

No one on this forum is young enough to see that day. Though if the left moves prematurely, you might get to see another American Civil War...

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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Doc » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:07 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:51 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 pm
Milo, the trouble is that the gun lobby has too many members of Congress beholden to it for any serious move to "call in the guns" (i.e. disarm the nation - to bring the US into line with every other OECD member state) initiated by the executive wing of their government to ever succeed.
Most Americans support gun ownership. So I guess that means the US has a democracy problem.
No Doc, just an ignorance problem. That suits the manipulators of public opinion?

How many more mass shootings do you think it will take before majority opinion finally changes for the better?
NF You don't live in the US. And your condescension is showing. Do you go to your neighbor's house and demand your neighbor take out his wife for dinner?


Americans have the absolute right to decide for themselves how to live. And note the greatest gun salesman in US History bar none was a guy named Barrack Obama.

All you have to do is watch this video to have the answer as to why.

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:54 am

Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

NF You don't live in the US. And your condescension is showing.
It is not "condescension" that moves me but compassion. It is because I am outside your American loop that I am able to exercise the gift of impartial detachment: something like a non-user of narcotics observing with sadness the self-destructive behaviour of someone hooked on cocaine.

Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am
Americans have the absolute right to decide for themselves how to live.
In this case Doc they have not decided how to live but how to kill one other: not the same thing!

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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Doc » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:07 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:54 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

NF You don't live in the US. And your condescension is showing.
It is not "condescension" that moves me but compassion. It is because I am outside your American loop that I am able to exercise the gift of impartial detachment: something like a non-user of narcotics observing with sadness the self-destructive behaviour of someone hooked on cocaine.
You have already thrown insults in this thread http://www.davosman.org/viewtopic.php?p=9758#p9758
Now suddenly you are saying you are "Moved by compassion" ? We have been talking here and in Spengler for a long time NF YOU KNOW BETTER
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am
Americans have the absolute right to decide for themselves how to live.
In this case Doc they have not decided how to live but how to kill one other: not the same thing!
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:58 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:07 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:54 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

NF You don't live in the US. And your condescension is showing.
It is not "condescension" that moves me but compassion. It is because I am outside your American loop that I am able to exercise the gift of impartial detachment: something like a non-user of narcotics observing with sadness the self-destructive behaviour of someone hooked on cocaine.
You have already thrown insults in this thread http://www.davosman.org/viewtopic.php?p=9758#p9758
Now suddenly you are saying you are "Moved by compassion" ? We have been talking here and in Spengler for a long time NF YOU KNOW BETTER
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am
Americans have the absolute right to decide for themselves how to live.
In this case Doc they have not decided how to live but how to kill one other: not the same thing!
Oh Doc, I would like to point out that I, along with some past facetious jibe I might have made (sorry if that left you with bruised feelings; not my intention), are not the topic of discussion underway here: gun deaths in America are that.
........................................................................................................

Returning to the topic and your point about most Americans supporting the current regime of gun ownership (I will accept that at face value for now): if your elected leaders cannot bring themselves to do the right thing by the country out of fear of losing votes (and/or other forms of support) then they are arguably not real leaders and therefore unworthy of public respect.

(Well, come to think of it: were I the president of a country where they have a past history of assassinating their most highly principled public identities - Lincoln, McKinley, JFK; not to mention the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King - by gunfire; possibly I would think twice about arousing the enmity of trigger-happy nutters against me and leave well enough alone. )

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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by Doc » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:12 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:58 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:07 pm
neverfail wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:54 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am

NF You don't live in the US. And your condescension is showing.
It is not "condescension" that moves me but compassion. It is because I am outside your American loop that I am able to exercise the gift of impartial detachment: something like a non-user of narcotics observing with sadness the self-destructive behaviour of someone hooked on cocaine.
You have already thrown insults in this thread http://www.davosman.org/viewtopic.php?p=9758#p9758
Now suddenly you are saying you are "Moved by compassion" ? We have been talking here and in Spengler for a long time NF YOU KNOW BETTER
Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:49 am
Americans have the absolute right to decide for themselves how to live.
In this case Doc they have not decided how to live but how to kill one other: not the same thing!
Oh Doc, I would like to point out that I, along with some past facetious jibe I might have made (sorry if that left you with bruised feelings; not my intention), are not the topic of discussion underway here: gun deaths in America are that.
You did that in this very same thread. That shows you are not serious when you turn around and claim "compassion". I am not perfect either, but if you want serious conversation then be serious. IE Just knock it off with the condescending insults
........................................................................................................

Returning to the topic and your point about most Americans supporting the current regime of gun ownership (I will accept that at face value for now): if your elected leaders cannot bring themselves to do the right thing by the country out of fear of losing votes (and/or other forms of support) then they are arguably not real leaders and therefore unworthy of public respect.
This is supposed to be a democracy. Politicians are supposed to be the employees citizens are supposed to be in charge. Your above comment is a denial of that.
(Well, come to think of it: were I the president of a country where they have a past history of assassinating their most highly principled public identities - Lincoln, McKinley, JFK; not to mention the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King - by gunfire; possibly I would think twice about arousing the enmity of trigger-happy nutters against me and leave well enough alone. )
Lincoln was assassinated by a traitor leftist So was Kennedy. MLK was assassinated by a Racist Democrat. Your examples are very open to interpretation NF
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:59 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:19 pm

Define "having access"
A silly question invites a frivolous dismissal.

Having a compassionate heart is not incompatible with having a sense of humour.
........................................................................................................

neverfail
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Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am

Re: Australian Minister explains where the HIGHEST gun deaths occurred…and it’s not in America

Post by neverfail » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:03 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:07 pm
This is supposed to be a democracy. Politicians are supposed to be the employees citizens are supposed to be in charge. Your above comment is a denial of that.
America is the only democracy I know of where conceptually the authority to govern comes from the ever changing whims of public opinion. In others, election day is a kind of sorting-out process whereby eligible voters get to choose who they want to govern them for a finite term; but once elected the government has a duty to govern to the best of its ability and does not have to do so in accordance with the shifting consensus of public opinion. In a country where the weight of expectation is that the elected governors are supposed to do whatever public opinion tells them to you are bound to get elected officials with about the same integrity as lumps of jelly. Such officials cannot command public respect.

But going by the number of complaints I have read from American posters about the impenetrable "elitism" of those in the Washington DC beltway, I would humbly suggest that even in your country government does not work the way you describe it.

"Government by the people" is a cherished American myth that should by now have been laid to rest.


Doc wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:07 pm
Lincoln was assassinated by a traitor leftist So was Kennedy. MLK was assassinated by a Racist Democrat. Your examples are very open to interpretation NF
Yes, and they were all able to get their hands on firearms - in accordance with (allegedly) a constitutional right guaranteed to all Americans regardless of homicidal intent. The same as the mass murderers who perpetrated the Florida and Las Vegas shootings of recent memory.

The right to own a lethal firearm implies the right to use it.

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