Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

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cassowary
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by cassowary » Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:45 am
Well, Pelosi is not visiting the island for the benefit of the Taiwanese but presumably for the additional political mileage she will gain back in the US from it. Were I Taiwanese I would not want my country to be treated as a stage backdrop for such self-serving theatrics by a foreign visitor.
The Taiwanese people and government don’t seem to have any objections, aside from a few screeds, obviously written by the PRC.
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:15 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:45 am
Well, Pelosi is not visiting the island for the benefit of the Taiwanese but presumably for the additional political mileage she will gain back in the US from it. Were I Taiwanese I would not want my country to be treated as a stage backdrop for such self-serving theatrics by a foreign visitor.
The Taiwanese people and government don’t seem to have any objections, aside from a few screeds, obviously written by the PRC.
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you lost all sense of proportion? Have you any idea of how deep seated is the power of the CCP? The CCP is the present face of the eternal Chinese expression of power. It may evolve, it will never be defeated.

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cassowary
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:52 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:15 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:45 am
Well, Pelosi is not visiting the island for the benefit of the Taiwanese but presumably for the additional political mileage she will gain back in the US from it. Were I Taiwanese I would not want my country to be treated as a stage backdrop for such self-serving theatrics by a foreign visitor.
The Taiwanese people and government don’t seem to have any objections, aside from a few screeds, obviously written by the PRC.
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you lost all sense of proportion? Have you any idea of how deep seated is the power of the CCP? The CCP is the present face of the eternal Chinese expression of power. It may evolve, it will never be defeated.
I was not predicting the CCP is going to lose power. I was saying they are afraid of losing power. So they don’t like democracy. They also don’t like Taiwan lest it inspires the mainland Chinese to want to try democracy.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:33 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:52 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:15 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:45 am
Well, Pelosi is not visiting the island for the benefit of the Taiwanese but presumably for the additional political mileage she will gain back in the US from it. Were I Taiwanese I would not want my country to be treated as a stage backdrop for such self-serving theatrics by a foreign visitor.
The Taiwanese people and government don’t seem to have any objections, aside from a few screeds, obviously written by the PRC.
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you lost all sense of proportion? Have you any idea of how deep seated is the power of the CCP? The CCP is the present face of the eternal Chinese expression of power. It may evolve, it will never be defeated.
I was not predicting the CCP is going to lose power. I was saying they are afraid of losing power. So they don’t like democracy. They also don’t like Taiwan lest it inspires the mainland Chinese to want to try democracy.
To the CCP Taiwan id just a matter of principle. It's Chinese and only China can decide what to do with it. The US interference is seen just as another form of colonialism, and China will never accept being treated again as it was in the 19th century. Americans do not understand that because their politicians are incredibly dumb.

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cassowary
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:03 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:52 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:15 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:45 am
Well, Pelosi is not visiting the island for the benefit of the Taiwanese but presumably for the additional political mileage she will gain back in the US from it. Were I Taiwanese I would not want my country to be treated as a stage backdrop for such self-serving theatrics by a foreign visitor.
The Taiwanese people and government don’t seem to have any objections, aside from a few screeds, obviously written by the PRC.
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you lost all sense of proportion? Have you any idea of how deep seated is the power of the CCP? The CCP is the present face of the eternal Chinese expression of power. It may evolve, it will never be defeated.
I was not predicting the CCP is going to lose power. I was saying they are afraid of losing power. So they don’t like democracy. They also don’t like Taiwan lest it inspires the mainland Chinese to want to try democracy.
To the CCP Taiwan id just a matter of principle. It's Chinese and only China can decide what to do with it. The US interference is seen just as another form of colonialism, and China will never accept being treated again as it was in the 19th century. Americans do not understand that because their politicians are incredibly dumb.
What you mean is that only the CCP ca decide what to do with Taiwan. China is not a democracy. So it is not the Chinese people who decides. It is the communist party which does not represent the Chinese people.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:46 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:03 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:52 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:15 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:33 am


The Taiwanese people and government don’t seem to have any objections, aside from a few screeds, obviously written by the PRC.
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you lost all sense of proportion? Have you any idea of how deep seated is the power of the CCP? The CCP is the present face of the eternal Chinese expression of power. It may evolve, it will never be defeated.
I was not predicting the CCP is going to lose power. I was saying they are afraid of losing power. So they don’t like democracy. They also don’t like Taiwan lest it inspires the mainland Chinese to want to try democracy.
To the CCP Taiwan id just a matter of principle. It's Chinese and only China can decide what to do with it. The US interference is seen just as another form of colonialism, and China will never accept being treated again as it was in the 19th century. Americans do not understand that because their politicians are incredibly dumb.
What you mean is that only the CCP ca decide what to do with Taiwan. China is not a democracy. So it is not the Chinese people who decides. It is the communist party which does not represent the Chinese people.
Strange as it may be to you, the CCP may not directly represent the Chinese people but represents the deep interests of China and its people. That's why they readily accept the direction of the CCP. They will never rebel against their present rulers, particularly if they feel that such rebellion would mainly serve the interests of the hated American foreigners.

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cassowary
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:20 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:46 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:03 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:33 am
cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:52 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:15 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm


The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you lost all sense of proportion? Have you any idea of how deep seated is the power of the CCP? The CCP is the present face of the eternal Chinese expression of power. It may evolve, it will never be defeated.
I was not predicting the CCP is going to lose power. I was saying they are afraid of losing power. So they don’t like democracy. They also don’t like Taiwan lest it inspires the mainland Chinese to want to try democracy.
To the CCP Taiwan id just a matter of principle. It's Chinese and only China can decide what to do with it. The US interference is seen just as another form of colonialism, and China will never accept being treated again as it was in the 19th century. Americans do not understand that because their politicians are incredibly dumb.
What you mean is that only the CCP ca decide what to do with Taiwan. China is not a democracy. So it is not the Chinese people who decides. It is the communist party which does not represent the Chinese people.
Strange as it may be to you, the CCP may not directly represent the Chinese people but represents the deep interests of China and its people. That's why they readily accept the direction of the CCP. They will never rebel against their present rulers, particularly if they feel that such rebellion would mainly serve the interests of the hated American foreigners.
Why should the ccp decide the interests of the Chinese nation? Nobody chose them. It is in china’s interests to become a peaceful, prosperous democracy. Xi’s belligerence is creating enemies and that is not in china’s interests.
The Imp :D

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neverfail
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by neverfail » Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:40 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you read David Goldman's latest (3rd August) Cassowary?

Apparently not!

Sleepwalking Into War With China
There is a fundamental asymmetry of strategic interest in Taiwan between China and the United States. China is not a nation-state but a polyglot empire. Only 1 in 10 Chinese converses in Mandarin, the state dialect, according to a 2014 government study. Most speak one of 200 dialects. China is held together as it has been for thousands of years by a common tax collector in Beijing and the Mandarin bureaucracy, recast as the Chinese Communist Party. One rebel province—as Beijing views Taiwan—sets a precedent for many. Countless times in its long history, China has fragmented into warring provinces, encouraged during the 19th and 20th centuries by foreign powers.
Yep, in Beijing they see Taiwan as a threat all right but NOT for the reason you presume.

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by Sertorio » Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:05 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:20 am

Why should the ccp decide the interests of the Chinese nation? Nobody chose them. It is in china’s interests to become a peaceful, prosperous democracy. Xi’s belligerence is creating enemies and that is not in china’s interests.
China has more peace and prosperity now than it has had in centuries. CCP's enemies are perceived also as enemies by most Chinese people, and they will not rebel against their government if it fights to bring Taiwan back to China's sovereignty. Democracy is meaningless to most Chinese. All they want is a good standard of living and being free to do whatever suits them. Which the present government provides them with.

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cassowary
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Re: Is Pelosi's coming visit to Taiwan good or bad?

Post by cassowary » Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:09 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Aug 04, 2022 5:40 am
cassowary wrote:
Wed Aug 03, 2022 9:54 pm
The CCP sees Taiwan as a threat. The Taiwanese are a Chinese people. They live in a prosperous democracy with a free press. They are free to thrown the ruling party out and elect a new leader. When Chen Sui Bian won the elections, the KMT lost power. This frightened the CCP leaders. If they kept up the reforms, would the same thing happen to them?
Have you read David Goldman's latest (3rd August) Cassowary?

Apparently not!

Sleepwalking Into War With China
There is a fundamental asymmetry of strategic interest in Taiwan between China and the United States. China is not a nation-state but a polyglot empire. Only 1 in 10 Chinese converses in Mandarin, the state dialect, according to a 2014 government study. Most speak one of 200 dialects. China is held together as it has been for thousands of years by a common tax collector in Beijing and the Mandarin bureaucracy, recast as the Chinese Communist Party. One rebel province—as Beijing views Taiwan—sets a precedent for many. Countless times in its long history, China has fragmented into warring provinces, encouraged during the 19th and 20th centuries by foreign powers.
Yep, in Beijing they see Taiwan as a threat all right but NOT for the reason you presume.
No. My opinion came from a Chinese tycoon, Desmond Shum who associated with the top echelon of the CCP. Have you read his book, ‘Red Roulette’?

Deng Xiaoping’s daughter told him that the top leaders were afraid when their counterparts the KMT lost power. Then they started rethinking reforms policy that Deng started.
The Imp :D

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