Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

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Sertorio
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Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:30 am

Habeck in the noise of the whistles
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/ ... 06989.html

(machine translated)

There is great fear in the federal government that the Ukraine policy could lead to protests. Economics Minister Robert Habeck felt the irritable mood in the country during his summer trip.

"Get lost, get lost, get lost" - even after an hour, the chorus of angry people who gathered on Thursday evening in front of the barriers at the Ehrenhof in downtown Bayreuth hardly subsided. Vice-Chancellor and Economics Minister Robert Habeck (Greens) is in town for a “civil dialogue”; it is one of half a dozen stops during his two-day summer trip. But there can be no question of a dialogue this evening. "Liars", "warmongers" they call out to him, while Habeck draws his usual wide arc from the war in Ukraine to forest fires and climate protection on stage.

Green ministers in particular have been warning of an impending split in the country for weeks. Annalena Baerbock (Greens) recently feared "popular uprisings" if Russia stopped supplying gas. An "exaggerated" statement, as she later said. Habeck saw social peace in danger as early as March and, on this basis, rejected an immediate ban on imports of Russian energy. This appearance in Bayreuth is not a pleasant one for him. Habeck is still a bit hoarse after his corona infection, sometimes his voice is lost in the noise of the whistles. But he can also feel vindicated this evening. The loud are still in the minority. But the high gas prices have not yet reached most consumers.
In a true democracy governments listen to the people, even outside elections, but in Germany the government apparently prefers to ignore people's feelings about the Russia sanctions.

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neverfail
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by neverfail » Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:30 am
In a true democracy governments listen to the people, even outside elections, but in Germany the government apparently prefers to ignore people's feelings about the Russia sanctions.
Governments listen but that does not mean that they always have to act on it. Public opinion is not by any means always either well informed or wise.

Governments rather have a public duty to provide the best government they can. That sometimes means going against the shifts and changes of fickle, transitory public opinion.

It seems that you are mistaking populism (which Donald trump specialised in) with "democracy".

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Sertorio
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:29 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 10:30 am
In a true democracy governments listen to the people, even outside elections, but in Germany the government apparently prefers to ignore people's feelings about the Russia sanctions.
Governments listen but that does not mean that they always have to act on it. Public opinion is not by any means always either well informed or wise.

Governments rather have a public duty to provide the best government they can. That sometimes means going against the shifts and changes of fickle, transitory public opinion.

It seems that you are mistaking populism (which Donald trump specialised in) with "democracy".
Governments and parliaments represent people, which means acting according to their wishes. Ignoring people's wishes is a funny way of representing them...

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neverfail
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by neverfail » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:13 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:29 pm
Governments and parliaments represent people, which means acting according to their wishes. Ignoring people's wishes is a funny way of representing them...
I have already answered that above. Take it or leave it!

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cassowary
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by cassowary » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 am

I think most Germans support Ukraine. See this.

https://www.dw.com/en/poll-nearly-half- ... v-61406286

Politicians do not want to do unpopular things or they will lose the next election. According to a recent poll about half of Germans want their government to do even more.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:54 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:13 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:29 pm
Governments and parliaments represent people, which means acting according to their wishes. Ignoring people's wishes is a funny way of representing them...
I have already answered that above. Take it or leave it!
No, you haven't. You just tried to justify governments ignoring people's wishes, under the excuse of doing what is best for them. That's the only democracy you know, so you may be excused to think so. Unfortunately government officials are never seen with a gun in their hands taking the risks of their hypocritical policies...

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Sertorio
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:56 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 am
I think most Germans support Ukraine. See this.

https://www.dw.com/en/poll-nearly-half- ... v-61406286

Politicians do not want to do unpopular things or they will lose the next election. According to a recent poll about half of Germans want their government to do even more.
Poll: Nearly half of Germans want more action on Ukraine

Meaning that a majority of Germans do not want it...But what is democracy but the rule of the minorities?...

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cassowary
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by cassowary » Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:03 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:56 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 am
I think most Germans support Ukraine. See this.

https://www.dw.com/en/poll-nearly-half- ... v-61406286

Politicians do not want to do unpopular things or they will lose the next election. According to a recent poll about half of Germans want their government to do even more.
Poll: Nearly half of Germans want more action on Ukraine

Meaning that a majority of Germans do not want it...But what is democracy but the rule of the minorities?...
Not necessarily. There could be a lot of undecideds. It could be some thing like this:

Do more : 49%
Do less 30%
Don’t know or we are doing enough: 21%
The Imp :D

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neverfail
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Re: Are Germans Happy With Sanctions Against Russia?

Post by neverfail » Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:05 am

cassowary wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:03 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:56 am
cassowary wrote:
Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 am
I think most Germans support Ukraine. See this.

https://www.dw.com/en/poll-nearly-half- ... v-61406286

Politicians do not want to do unpopular things or they will lose the next election. According to a recent poll about half of Germans want their government to do even more.
Poll: Nearly half of Germans want more action on Ukraine

Meaning that a majority of Germans do not want it...But what is democracy but the rule of the minorities?...
Not necessarily. There could be a lot of undecideds. It could be some thing like this:

Do more : 49%
Do less 30%
Don’t know or we are doing enough: 21%
Public opinion is by its nature fickle in most things and is therefore a poor guide around which to frame government policy (as I tried to point out to Sertorio to no avail in another discussion). The question to focus on is how closely do Germany's national interests align with those of Ukraine?

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