Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

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Milo
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by Milo » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:43 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:36 am
Milo wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:25 am
Milo wrote:
Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:38 pm

Many think that part of the reason for using the Wagner group is they are not officially Russian soldiers, so they do not count in the casualty figures.
The Wagner group is a professional military unit made up of Russian former soldiers and therefore very efficient. Why shouldn't Russia use them? It does for Russia what CIA controlled fighting groups do for the US, with the difference that CIA does not insist on using Americans...
Everybody knows that most people at work for Wagner are not Russians.
Prove it.
You said they're all Russian not me.

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Sertorio
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:37 am

Milo wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:43 am

Everybody knows that most people at work for Wagner are not Russians.
And I repeat, prove it.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:41 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:25 am
The Wagner group is a professional military unit made up of Russian former soldiers and therefore very efficient.
Prove it.

(That's how that works, right?)
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:25 am
The Wagner group is a professional military unit made up of Russian former soldiers and therefore very efficient.
Prove it.

(That's how that works, right?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

In early 2016, Wagner had 1,000 employees, which later rose to 5,000 by August 2017, and 6,000 by December 2017. The organization was said to be registered in Argentina and also has offices in Saint Petersburg and Hong Kong.

In early October 2017, the SBU said that Wagner's funding in 2017 had been increased by 185 million rubles ($3.1 million) and that around forty Ukrainian nationals were working for Wagner, with the remaining 95 percent of the personnel being Russian citizens.
I don't know why I waste my time with you...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:19 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:25 am
The Wagner group is a professional military unit made up of Russian former soldiers and therefore very efficient.
Prove it.

(That's how that works, right?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

In early 2016, Wagner had 1,000 employees, which later rose to 5,000 by August 2017, and 6,000 by December 2017. The organization was said to be registered in Argentina and also has offices in Saint Petersburg and Hong Kong.

In early October 2017, the SBU said that Wagner's funding in 2017 had been increased by 185 million rubles ($3.1 million) and that around forty Ukrainian nationals were working for Wagner, with the remaining 95 percent of the personnel being Russian citizens.
I don't know why I waste my time with you...
You skipped the part where it said, "The Russian state is also documented supporting the Wagner Group with passports." So it remains unclear how many of them are actually Russian, and how many have just been laundered through Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs.

You also skipped the part where it said, "While the Wagner Group itself is not ideologically driven, various elements of Wagner have been linked to Neo-Nazis and far-right extremists." But then. admitting that would undermine your bullshit claim that the invasion is to "de-Nazify Ukraine".
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:32 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:19 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:25 am
The Wagner group is a professional military unit made up of Russian former soldiers and therefore very efficient.
Prove it.

(That's how that works, right?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

In early 2016, Wagner had 1,000 employees, which later rose to 5,000 by August 2017, and 6,000 by December 2017. The organization was said to be registered in Argentina and also has offices in Saint Petersburg and Hong Kong.

In early October 2017, the SBU said that Wagner's funding in 2017 had been increased by 185 million rubles ($3.1 million) and that around forty Ukrainian nationals were working for Wagner, with the remaining 95 percent of the personnel being Russian citizens.
I don't know why I waste my time with you...
You skipped the part where it said, "The Russian state is also documented supporting the Wagner Group with passports." So it remains unclear how many of them are actually Russian, and how many have just been laundered through Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs.

You also skipped the part where it said, "While the Wagner Group itself is not ideologically driven, various elements of Wagner have been linked to Neo-Nazis and far-right extremists." But then. admitting that would undermine your bullshit claim that the invasion is to "de-Nazify Ukraine".
The issue under discussion was the nationality of the Wagner Group members. They are mostly Russian. Their ideology is certainly diverse, as it is among any large group of people. But rather than recognizing I was right and you were wrong, you tried to shift the discussion to something else which was not part of the initial discussion. Once more we see that it isn't possible to hold a honest discussion with you, because you ignore the meaning of the word honesty...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:24 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:32 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:19 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:25 am
The Wagner group is a professional military unit made up of Russian former soldiers and therefore very efficient.
Prove it.

(That's how that works, right?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group

In early 2016, Wagner had 1,000 employees, which later rose to 5,000 by August 2017, and 6,000 by December 2017. The organization was said to be registered in Argentina and also has offices in Saint Petersburg and Hong Kong.

In early October 2017, the SBU said that Wagner's funding in 2017 had been increased by 185 million rubles ($3.1 million) and that around forty Ukrainian nationals were working for Wagner, with the remaining 95 percent of the personnel being Russian citizens.
I don't know why I waste my time with you...
You skipped the part where it said, "The Russian state is also documented supporting the Wagner Group with passports." So it remains unclear how many of them are actually Russian, and how many have just been laundered through Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs.

You also skipped the part where it said, "While the Wagner Group itself is not ideologically driven, various elements of Wagner have been linked to Neo-Nazis and far-right extremists." But then. admitting that would undermine your bullshit claim that the invasion is to "de-Nazify Ukraine".
The issue under discussion was the nationality of the Wagner Group members. They are mostly Russian.
I'll repeat this, since you are only capable of keeping track of the last sentence in any response:

You skipped the part where it said, "The Russian state is also documented supporting the Wagner Group with passports." So it remains unclear how many of them are actually Russian, and how many have just been laundered through Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:32 pm
Their ideology is certainly diverse, as it is among any large group of people. But rather than recognizing I was right and you were wrong, you tried to shift the discussion to something else which was not part of the initial discussion. Once more we see that it isn't possible to hold a honest discussion with you, because you ignore the meaning of the word honesty...
I wasn't shifting the discussion, I was making two separate points in one response, which is something that one would expect a Great Professional Thinker to be able to handle cognitively.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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neverfail
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:32 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:59 am
I don't know why I waste my time with you...
:lol: Because you find hitting your head up against a brick wall an irresistible pastime, Sertorio? :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:59 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:24 pm

You skipped the part where it said, "The Russian state is also documented supporting the Wagner Group with passports." So it remains unclear how many of them are actually Russian, and how many have just been laundered through Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs.
"Supporting the Wagner Group with passports" means nothing. How many benefited? One? Ten? One hundred?.. The truth is that the Wagner Group is mostly made of Russians and you try desperately to avoid having to recognize it. You have been so brainwashed by western propaganda that you are no longer capable of reasoning. Flat-earthers are like that...

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cassowary
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Re: Western Weapons are Helping the Ukraine to Win the War

Post by cassowary » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:36 am

Sertorio,

What Steve is saying is that there is a possibility that they are non Russians but were given Russian passports.
The Imp :D

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