WWIII panic is kalingrad

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Doc
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WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by Doc » Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:09 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... rail-goods

Russia threatens ‘serious consequences’ as Lithuania blocks rail goods

Row escalates over Vilnius’s refusal to allow steel and iron ore to cross Russian exclave of Kaliningrad
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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neverfail
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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by neverfail » Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:29 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:09 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... rail-goods

Russia threatens ‘serious consequences’ as Lithuania blocks rail goods

Row escalates over Vilnius’s refusal to allow steel and iron ore to cross Russian exclave of Kaliningrad
Thanks for inaugurating this discussion Doc. Had you not done so first then I would have.

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Doc
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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by Doc » Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:41 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:29 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:09 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... rail-goods

Russia threatens ‘serious consequences’ as Lithuania blocks rail goods

Row escalates over Vilnius’s refusal to allow steel and iron ore to cross Russian exclave of Kaliningrad
Thanks for inaugurating this discussion Doc. Had you not done so first then I would have.
I saw another article saying people in Kalingrad panic buying food. Though it appears the Lithuanians are only blocking industrial goods.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Milo
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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by Milo » Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:13 am

Doc wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:41 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:29 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:09 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... rail-goods

Russia threatens ‘serious consequences’ as Lithuania blocks rail goods

Row escalates over Vilnius’s refusal to allow steel and iron ore to cross Russian exclave of Kaliningrad
Thanks for inaugurating this discussion Doc. Had you not done so first then I would have.
I saw another article saying people in Kalingrad panic buying food. Though it appears the Lithuanians are only blocking industrial goods.
Perhaps we will see if Russia cares to open a two front war.

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Doc
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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by Doc » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:42 pm

Milo wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 11:13 am
Doc wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:41 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jun 22, 2022 2:29 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:09 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... rail-goods

Russia threatens ‘serious consequences’ as Lithuania blocks rail goods

Row escalates over Vilnius’s refusal to allow steel and iron ore to cross Russian exclave of Kaliningrad
Thanks for inaugurating this discussion Doc. Had you not done so first then I would have.
I saw another article saying people in Kalingrad panic buying food. Though it appears the Lithuanians are only blocking industrial goods.
Perhaps we will see if Russia cares to open a two front war.
Three front if you include Kazakhstan. Putin said something to the effect that Kazakhstan is not a real country the other day. Which is similar to statements made before he invaded Ukraine.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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neverfail
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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by neverfail » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:19 am

As a sovereign nation Lithuania has a perfect right to decide what passes across its borders into the domain of a neighbouring state. If only Russia were a more agreeable neighbour there would be no problem.

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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by Sertorio » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:19 am
As a sovereign nation Lithuania has a perfect right to decide what passes across its borders into the domain of a neighbouring state. If only Russia were a more agreeable neighbour there would be no problem.
The EU and Lithuania have signed an agreement with Russia that there would be no interference in the traffic between Russia proper and Kaliningrad. Besides, international law forbids any blockade of transit between two parts of the same country. At most Lithuania might be allowed to demand that goods in transit are inside sealed containers, to prevent those goods being offloaded while passing through its territory. Let's, for once, stop trying to justify violations of international law by countries we like.

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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:35 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:19 am
As a sovereign nation Lithuania has a perfect right to decide what passes across its borders into the domain of a neighbouring state. If only Russia were a more agreeable neighbour there would be no problem.
The EU and Lithuania have signed an agreement with Russia that there would be no interference in the traffic between Russia proper and Kaliningrad. Besides, international law forbids any blockade of transit between two parts of the same country. At most Lithuania might be allowed to demand that goods in transit are inside sealed containers, to prevent those goods being offloaded while passing through its territory. Let's, for once, stop trying to justify violations of international law by countries we like.
This is a fair point. Since Lithuania and Russia are not at war, agreements between them should remain upheld. One could make an argument against military shipments, but manufacturing inputs?
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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by neverfail » Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:59 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:19 am
As a sovereign nation Lithuania has a perfect right to decide what passes across its borders into the domain of a neighbouring state. If only Russia were a more agreeable neighbour there would be no problem.
The EU and Lithuania have signed an agreement with Russia that there would be no interference in the traffic between Russia proper and Kaliningrad. Besides, international law forbids any blockade of transit between two parts of the same country. At most Lithuania might be allowed to demand that goods in transit are inside sealed containers, to prevent those goods being offloaded while passing through its territory. Let's, for once, stop trying to justify violations of international law by countries we like.
It is not as though Russia needs to send goods by rail or road through Lithuania: considering that Lithuania has no common border with Russia apart from with the Kaliningrad exclave. On the eastern side of Lithuania is Belarus, not Russia. So any goods being sent overland would need to transit the width of Belarus before they could even reach the Lithuanian border.

Russia still has unimpeded access by sea to the exclave, especially from their port of St Petersburg. So as I see it there is no need for Putin to make an issue of it. To avoid treading on Lithuanian and EU corns simply supply the exclave by sea.

(But of course Putin has no intention or desire to avert a crisis these days, does he?)

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Re: WWIII panic is kalingrad

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:45 pm

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:59 pm
It is not as though Russia needs to send goods by rail or road through Lithuania: considering that Lithuania has no common border with Russia apart from with the Kaliningrad exclave. On the eastern side of Lithuania is Belarus, not Russia. So any goods being sent overland would need to transit the width of Belarus before they could even reach the Lithuanian border.
Belarus vs. Russia is a distinction without a difference, considering Lukashenko is Putin's puppet and the two are a so-called "Union State".
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:59 pm
Russia still has unimpeded access by sea to the exclave, especially from their port of St Petersburg. So as I see it there is no need for Putin to make an issue of it. To avoid treading on Lithuanian and EU corns simply supply the exclave by sea.

(But of course Putin has no intention or desire to avert a crisis these days, does he?)
If Lithuanian policymakers have agreed to allow Russian goods to transfer through their territory, but now are not allowing that, then they're the ones turning up the heat on the situation. I understand it, but it is what it is.
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