Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

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neverfail
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by neverfail » Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:37 pm

Were I a European (and thank goodness I am not) my greatest fear would be that the Americans will one day get fed up with having to shoulder the task of trying to protect and prop up a feckless Europe that has at least since the end of the Cold War not been pulling its weight in military defence matters. It could well happen. Think about Donald Trump, reflecting an inward looking voter constituency, running again in 2024 and winning. The Russian wolf will then truly be free to pounce upon the European sheep.

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Sertorio
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:37 pm
Were I a European (and thank goodness I am not) my greatest fear would be that the Americans will one day get fed up with having to shoulder the task of trying to protect and prop up a feckless Europe that has at least since the end of the Cold War not been pulling its weight in military defence matters. It could well happen. Think about Donald Trump, reflecting an inward looking voter constituency, running again in 2024 and winning. The Russian wolf will then truly be free to pounce upon the European sheep.
Can't wait to see it happening...

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neverfail
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by neverfail » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:16 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:37 pm
Were I a European (and thank goodness I am not) my greatest fear would be that the Americans will one day get fed up with having to shoulder the task of trying to protect and prop up a feckless Europe that has at least since the end of the Cold War not been pulling its weight in military defence matters. It could well happen. Think about Donald Trump, reflecting an inward looking voter constituency, running again in 2024 and winning. The Russian wolf will then truly be free to pounce upon the European sheep.
Can't wait to see it happening...
Beware of what you wish for. When you actually get to experience Russian rule in Portugal you will earnestly wish you had the Americans back.

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Sertorio
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:30 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:16 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:37 pm
Were I a European (and thank goodness I am not) my greatest fear would be that the Americans will one day get fed up with having to shoulder the task of trying to protect and prop up a feckless Europe that has at least since the end of the Cold War not been pulling its weight in military defence matters. It could well happen. Think about Donald Trump, reflecting an inward looking voter constituency, running again in 2024 and winning. The Russian wolf will then truly be free to pounce upon the European sheep.
Can't wait to see it happening...
Beware of what you wish for. When you actually get to experience Russian rule in Portugal you will earnestly wish you had the Americans back.
No way Russia will have any interest on countries outside its borders. The end of the US presence in Europe would be the beginning of a more peaceful era for all of us.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:53 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:37 pm
Were I a European (and thank goodness I am not) my greatest fear would be that the Americans will one day get fed up with having to shoulder the task of trying to protect and prop up a feckless Europe that has at least since the end of the Cold War not been pulling its weight in military defence matters. It could well happen. Think about Donald Trump, reflecting an inward looking voter constituency, running again in 2024 and winning. The Russian wolf will then truly be free to pounce upon the European sheep.
Can't wait to see it happening...
Yes, we know that nothing would please you more than to see Russian tanks rolling through all the capitals of Europe.
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Sertorio
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:03 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 5:37 pm
Were I a European (and thank goodness I am not) my greatest fear would be that the Americans will one day get fed up with having to shoulder the task of trying to protect and prop up a feckless Europe that has at least since the end of the Cold War not been pulling its weight in military defence matters. It could well happen. Think about Donald Trump, reflecting an inward looking voter constituency, running again in 2024 and winning. The Russian wolf will then truly be free to pounce upon the European sheep.
Can't wait to see it happening...
Yes, we know that nothing would please you more than to see Russian tanks rolling through all the capitals of Europe.
No need to. Europeans countries will collapse on their own...

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neverfail
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by neverfail » Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:25 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:03 pm
No need to. Europeans countries will collapse on their own...
....and then Putin's Russia marches in to pick up the pieces. Oh, what a glorious future you visualise for the European sub-continent.
...............................................................................................................................................

You know SF, Sertorio's hopes and expectations as published on this website (Europe will collapse; the Western alliance will collapse) reminds me so much of Karl Marx in his sunset years. He then lived in the hope and expectation that he would live long enough to witness the proletarian revolution he foresaw as both inevitable and desirable.

This armchair theorist could not step outside his self-constructed theoretical box to comprehend that the transformative changes that he was witnessing in his day may not have been the historical will-of-a-wisp he imagined them to be but, like the Neolithic agrarian revolution that began around 10,000 years ago, was destined to change mankind in ways that were bound to be fixed and permanent.

Sertorio, it seems your brain has soaked up too much Marx-thought. You should think of expunging it for the sake of restoring clarity of thought.
Last edited by neverfail on Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sertorio
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by Sertorio » Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:55 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:25 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:03 pm
No need to. Europeans countries will collapse on their own...
....and then Putin's Russia marches in to pick up the pieces. Oh, what a glorious future you visualise for the European sub-continent.
No. I see Russia being available to pick up cooperation with Europe, for the benefit of both parties. Once Europe frees itself from the American oppression. Contrarily to the US, Russia is a reliable partner, provided nobody tries to screw it...

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neverfail
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by neverfail » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:41 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:55 pm

No need to. Europeans countries will collapse on their own...
....and then Putin's Russia marches in to pick up the pieces. Oh, what a glorious future you visualise for the European sub-continent.
No. I see Russia being available to pick up cooperation with Europe for the benefit of both parties
Oh sure! Having become dominant in Europe due to US default Putin's Russia is going to be "cooperative" out of a sunny altruism? Well, power politics, especially Eurasian power politics, has never worked like that. Russian society suffers lower living standards than those prevailing across Europe so you can count on it that Russia, in the absence of Any American challenge to curb its exploitation, will demand payment of tribute in some form or other - as the Soviet Union did with its eastern European satellite states. Or are you ignorant of the fact that the USSR treated those who were under its thumb like that as you are selectively blind of so much else?
. Once Europe frees itself from the American oppression.
What American oppression? The USA did not even have to open up its domestic market to competition from European and Japanese manufactured consumer goods in the decades after the Second World war yet it still did. Out of self-interest? Yes, but it was ENLIGHTENED self-interest: unlike the unenlightened beggar-thy-neighbour habit of pre-World Wars European states of keeping their domestic markets closed to each other's products rendering all poorer as a consequence. You can thank the American "oppressor" (i.e. patron) for the fact that Europe is even half as prosperous as it is now. You Europeans could not have possibly rebuilt your continent all by yourselves from the destruction of the Second World War (though down in the backwater of Portugal this might not have been obvious).

Do you really believe that Russia with its impoverished domestic markets can possibly offer you Europeans the means to sustain your current accepted standard of living? :lol: All fool you if you do.
Contrarily to the US, Russia is a reliable partner, provided nobody tries to screw it...
...as Putin's Russia is currently striving to screw Ukraine, you mean?

Reliable? Zelinsky could not even rely of Russia to respect his country's international frontiers and keep his troops out.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Is the West, Particularly Europe, About to Crumble?

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:13 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:25 pm
You know SF, Sertorio's hopes and expectations as published on this website (Europe will collapse; the Western alliance will collapse) reminds me so much of Karl Marx in his sunset years. He then lived in the hope and expectation that he would live long enough to witness the proletarian revolution he foresaw as both inevitable and desirable.

This armchair theorist could not step outside his self-constructed theoretical box to comprehend that the transformative changes that he was witnessing in his day may not have been the historical will-of-a-wisp he imagined them to be but, like the Neolithic agrarian revolution that began around 10,000 years ago, was destined to change mankind in ways that were bound to be fixed and permanent.

Sertorio, it seems your brain has soaked up too much Marx-thought. You should think of expunging it for the sake of restoring clarity of thought.
He's a geriatric academic Marxist. You can't teach that dog new tricks.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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