Democracy European Style

Discussion of current events
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SteveFoerster
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Re: Democracy European Style

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat May 14, 2022 5:41 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:38 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
I cannot blame the Latvian authorities for prosecuting these provocative individuals (undoubtedly ethnic Russians) for what amounts to an insult to Latvia's identity.
Well, you should. Justifying Latvia's blatant human rights violations only undermines the argument for opposing Russia's human rights violations.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
It is the sort of provocation that turd Putin would routinely organize against the Baltics from this side of the border.
Even if that were true -- and there's no evidence for it whatsoever -- it still wouldn't justify denying ethnic Russians in Latvia their freedom of expression.
The Soviets replaced Hitler’s dictatorship with Communist dictatorship. Celebrating May9 is thus also celebrating 40 years of Communist dictatorship.

Instead of getting bulldozers in and threatening arrests, they should hold a counter demonstration equating May 9 to forty years of Communist dictatorship. May 9 shall be day of mourning.
Quite right.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Milo
Posts: 3904
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by Milo » Sat May 14, 2022 8:19 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:30 am
Milo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:32 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 6:47 am
Milo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 6:25 am
You keep insisting you can’t access rt, in between posting dozens of articles from it.
You are more interested on my being able to access RT then on whatever they have to report...But why would you be interested on information and on a different source of information? After all you have access to all the NATO propaganda you need...
I am interested in your deception.
Not deception. I have to go around the blockage in order to access RT. It's not easy.
I have no problem assessing RT.

https://www.rt.com/

See if you are blocked.
He keeps alluding to this but never speaks to any details.

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cassowary
Posts: 5668
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by cassowary » Sat May 14, 2022 8:43 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 5:41 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:38 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
I cannot blame the Latvian authorities for prosecuting these provocative individuals (undoubtedly ethnic Russians) for what amounts to an insult to Latvia's identity.
Well, you should. Justifying Latvia's blatant human rights violations only undermines the argument for opposing Russia's human rights violations.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
It is the sort of provocation that turd Putin would routinely organize against the Baltics from this side of the border.
Even if that were true -- and there's no evidence for it whatsoever -- it still wouldn't justify denying ethnic Russians in Latvia their freedom of expression.
The Soviets replaced Hitler’s dictatorship with Communist dictatorship. Celebrating May9 is thus also celebrating 40 years of Communist dictatorship.

Instead of getting bulldozers in and threatening arrests, they should hold a counter demonstration equating May 9 to forty years of Communist dictatorship. May 9 shall be day of mourning.
Quite right.
In the demonstration, remind people of Soviet atrocities in Latvia after it was liberated from the Nazis.

https://www.onlatvia.com/tag/soviet-genocide.

I don’t know who is worse. The Nazis or the Communists?
The Imp :D

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neverfail
Posts: 8413
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Australia

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by neverfail » Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
I cannot blame the Latvian authorities for prosecuting these provocative individuals (undoubtedly ethnic Russians) for what amounts to an insult to Latvia's identity.
Well, you should. Justifying Latvia's blatant human rights violations only undermines the argument for opposing Russia's human rights violations.
Human right by WHOSE standards? Latvia has far less reason to feel secure than we do.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
It is the sort of provocation that turd Putin would routinely organize against the Baltics from this side of the border.
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Even if that were true -- and there's no evidence for it whatsoever -- it still wouldn't justify denying ethnic Russians in Latvia their freedom of expression.
No proof, but it still stands to reason. I have known Latvian (Lett) refugees but you apparently have not. After Soviet forces recovered the country from the Germans (1944); in the decades that followed Stalin deported hundreds of thousands of Letts from their home country into the wastes of Siberia and Soviet central Asia and replace them with ethnic Russians: to the point where the Letts ended up only marginally the majority population within their own country. Had Soviet policies continued they would likely have become extinct as a people. Luckily the USSR crumbled first and they were able to win their sovereignty back

I consider that the Latvian people acted with commendable tolerance and restraint by NOT taking to those Russians in their midst hounding and persecuting them out of their country altogether; considering that they were/are by their presence like a permanent living reminder of past Stalinist/Soviet genocidal policies perpetrated against them. Now to ask the Letts to go a step further and endure ethnic Russian insolence and arrogance towards them is demanding to much from these people by way of tolerance. They are not super-human paragons you know and more than we are!

Allowing ethnic Russians living in Latvia freedom to act like stand-over men towards the locals for deliberate provocation is tantamount to granting Putin the freedom to project his propaganda into their country. Part of the effort in defending your country lies in denial of the enemy opportunity for propaganda.

I suggest rather that the ethnic Russians should feel obliged to observe respect for the local Latvian community's sensitivities over the matter. Most seem to have done so but among them are residing some of Putin's dupes - like those agent-provocatuer May 9th troublemakers. As Russians living in Latvia they are after all like house guests living in another person's home. If you are living in somebody else's home it pays you to cultivate good relations with your host if only in your best interests.

Now that you are better informed of the background, please spare me and others your misapplied, smarmy, left liberal values.
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:38 pm
The Soviets replaced Hitler’s dictatorship with Communist dictatorship. Celebrating May9 is thus also celebrating 40 years of Communist dictatorship.

I don’t know who is worse. The Nazis or the Communists?
Consider both to have been agents of Satan: dupes doing his dirty work of widely spreading grief and loss here on Earth. The incalculable harm Russian forces are presently doing in Ukraine is evidence that this angel of evil has still not been expunged.

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Sertorio
Posts: 7382
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 15, 2022 1:28 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
I cannot blame the Latvian authorities for prosecuting these provocative individuals (undoubtedly ethnic Russians) for what amounts to an insult to Latvia's identity.
Well, you should. Justifying Latvia's blatant human rights violations only undermines the argument for opposing Russia's human rights violations.
Human right by WHOSE standards? Latvia has far less reason to feel secure than we do.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
It is the sort of provocation that turd Putin would routinely organize against the Baltics from this side of the border.
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Even if that were true -- and there's no evidence for it whatsoever -- it still wouldn't justify denying ethnic Russians in Latvia their freedom of expression.
No proof, but it still stands to reason. I have known Latvian (Lett) refugees but you apparently have not. After Soviet forces recovered the country from the Germans (1944); in the decades that followed Stalin deported hundreds of thousands of Letts from their home country into the wastes of Siberia and Soviet central Asia and replace them with ethnic Russians: to the point where the Letts ended up only marginally the majority population within their own country. Had Soviet policies continued they would likely have become extinct as a people. Luckily the USSR crumbled first and they were able to win their sovereignty back

I consider that the Latvian people acted with commendable tolerance and restraint by NOT taking to those Russians in their midst hounding and persecuting them out of their country altogether; considering that they were/are by their presence like a permanent living reminder of past Stalinist/Soviet genocidal policies perpetrated against them. Now to ask the Letts to go a step further and endure ethnic Russian insolence and arrogance towards them is demanding to much from these people by way of tolerance. They are not super-human paragons you know and more than we are!

Allowing ethnic Russians living in Latvia freedom to act like stand-over men towards the locals for deliberate provocation is tantamount to granting Putin the freedom to project his propaganda into their country. Part of the effort in defending your country lies in denial of the enemy opportunity for propaganda.

I suggest rather that the ethnic Russians should feel obliged to observe respect for the local Latvian community's sensitivities over the matter. Most seem to have done so but among them are residing some of Putin's dupes - like those agent-provocatuer May 9th troublemakers. As Russians living in Latvia they are after all like house guests living in another person's home. If you are living in somebody else's home it pays you to cultivate good relations with your host if only in your best interests.

Now that you are better informed of the background, please spare me and others your misapplied, smarmy, left liberal values.
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:38 pm
The Soviets replaced Hitler’s dictatorship with Communist dictatorship. Celebrating May9 is thus also celebrating 40 years of Communist dictatorship.

I don’t know who is worse. The Nazis or the Communists?
Consider both to have been agents of Satan: dupes doing his dirty work of widely spreading grief and loss here on Earth. The incalculable harm Russian forces are presently doing in Ukraine is evidence that this angel of evil has still not been expunged.
Reading your comments I can reach two conclusions:

1. You have no idea of what democracy and liberty are, as you are too eager to sacrifice them to your prejudices.
2. It is easier to understand the way Australians have treated the Aboriginal population (who definitely are not "true" Australians...)

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 5668
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by cassowary » Sun May 15, 2022 6:00 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 1:28 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
I cannot blame the Latvian authorities for prosecuting these provocative individuals (undoubtedly ethnic Russians) for what amounts to an insult to Latvia's identity.
Well, you should. Justifying Latvia's blatant human rights violations only undermines the argument for opposing Russia's human rights violations.
Human right by WHOSE standards? Latvia has far less reason to feel secure than we do.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
It is the sort of provocation that turd Putin would routinely organize against the Baltics from this side of the border.
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
Even if that were true -- and there's no evidence for it whatsoever -- it still wouldn't justify denying ethnic Russians in Latvia their freedom of expression.
No proof, but it still stands to reason. I have known Latvian (Lett) refugees but you apparently have not. After Soviet forces recovered the country from the Germans (1944); in the decades that followed Stalin deported hundreds of thousands of Letts from their home country into the wastes of Siberia and Soviet central Asia and replace them with ethnic Russians: to the point where the Letts ended up only marginally the majority population within their own country. Had Soviet policies continued they would likely have become extinct as a people. Luckily the USSR crumbled first and they were able to win their sovereignty back

I consider that the Latvian people acted with commendable tolerance and restraint by NOT taking to those Russians in their midst hounding and persecuting them out of their country altogether; considering that they were/are by their presence like a permanent living reminder of past Stalinist/Soviet genocidal policies perpetrated against them. Now to ask the Letts to go a step further and endure ethnic Russian insolence and arrogance towards them is demanding to much from these people by way of tolerance. They are not super-human paragons you know and more than we are!

Allowing ethnic Russians living in Latvia freedom to act like stand-over men towards the locals for deliberate provocation is tantamount to granting Putin the freedom to project his propaganda into their country. Part of the effort in defending your country lies in denial of the enemy opportunity for propaganda.

I suggest rather that the ethnic Russians should feel obliged to observe respect for the local Latvian community's sensitivities over the matter. Most seem to have done so but among them are residing some of Putin's dupes - like those agent-provocatuer May 9th troublemakers. As Russians living in Latvia they are after all like house guests living in another person's home. If you are living in somebody else's home it pays you to cultivate good relations with your host if only in your best interests.

Now that you are better informed of the background, please spare me and others your misapplied, smarmy, left liberal values.
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:38 pm
The Soviets replaced Hitler’s dictatorship with Communist dictatorship. Celebrating May9 is thus also celebrating 40 years of Communist dictatorship.

I don’t know who is worse. The Nazis or the Communists?
Consider both to have been agents of Satan: dupes doing his dirty work of widely spreading grief and loss here on Earth. The incalculable harm Russian forces are presently doing in Ukraine is evidence that this angel of evil has still not been expunged.
Reading your comments I can reach two conclusions:

1. You have no idea of what democracy and liberty are, as you are too eager to sacrifice them to your prejudices.
2. It is easier to understand the way Australians have treated the Aboriginal population (who definitely are not "true" Australians...)
Of course I know what democracy and liberty are. What makes you think I don’t? . And how have I sacrificed them to my prejudices? What are my prejudices?
The Imp :D

User avatar
SteveFoerster
Posts: 3308
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Probably DCA, YYJ, or DOM
Contact:

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun May 15, 2022 1:52 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
I cannot blame the Latvian authorities for prosecuting these provocative individuals (undoubtedly ethnic Russians) for what amounts to an insult to Latvia's identity.
Well, you should. Justifying Latvia's blatant human rights violations only undermines the argument for opposing Russia's human rights violations.
Human right by WHOSE standards?
Sounds like you'd do well at the UN.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm
Latvia has far less reason to feel secure than we do.
"Latvia" is not a person with feelings. Ethnic Russians who are citizens of Latvia do not lose their human rights in their own country simply for having unpopular heritage.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 2:46 pm
It is the sort of provocation that turd Putin would routinely organize against the Baltics from this side of the border.
Even if that were true -- and there's no evidence for it whatsoever -- it still wouldn't justify denying ethnic Russians in Latvia their freedom of expression.
No proof, but it still stands to reason.
You're not making an argument based on reason; you're making one based on feelings.
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 11:41 pm
I have known Latvian (Lett) refugees but you apparently have not.
And now those feelings are causing you to make foolish assumptions. Because yes, I have. In fact I campaigned for a Latvian guy who was running for the Virginia state legislature, and he hated communism with the fiery passion that only someone who's lived under it can manifest. But he maintained "smarmy, left liberal values" precisely because he never wanted to become the thing that he hated.

So I'll skip your patronising history lesson, thanks.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 7382
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Democracy European Style

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 15, 2022 2:10 pm

Milo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:19 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 4:53 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 10:30 am
Milo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:32 am
Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 6:47 am
Milo wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 6:25 am
You keep insisting you can’t access rt, in between posting dozens of articles from it.
You are more interested on my being able to access RT then on whatever they have to report...But why would you be interested on information and on a different source of information? After all you have access to all the NATO propaganda you need...
I am interested in your deception.
Not deception. I have to go around the blockage in order to access RT. It's not easy.
I have no problem assessing RT.

https://www.rt.com/

See if you are blocked.
He keeps alluding to this but never speaks to any details.
Why do you think I owe you any explanation? I do not lie. If you do not believe me that's your problem.

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