Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

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Sertorio
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Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by Sertorio » Sat May 07, 2022 2:32 pm

The Ukrainian military came out in the area of ​​"Azovstal" with a white flag
by Alexandra Yudina - May 7, 2022, 14:10
https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/7/1157409.html (machine translated from Russian)

A group of Ukrainian military in the Azovstal area in Mariupol came out with a white flag to the road intended for the evacuation of civilians, said the commander of the Vostok battalion Alexander Khodakovsky.

“Towards the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Russian military moved forward as truce envoys. This is the first personal contact of the parties for the entire time of the fighting in Mariupol, ”the military reporter of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company in Ukraine, Yevgeny Poddubny, notes in the Telegram channel.
So it starts. The alternative is pulverization...

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Doc
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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by Doc » Sat May 07, 2022 9:39 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 2:32 pm
The Ukrainian military came out in the area of ​​"Azovstal" with a white flag
by Alexandra Yudina - May 7, 2022, 14:10
https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/7/1157409.html (machine translated from Russian)

A group of Ukrainian military in the Azovstal area in Mariupol came out with a white flag to the road intended for the evacuation of civilians, said the commander of the Vostok battalion Alexander Khodakovsky.

“Towards the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Russian military moved forward as truce envoys. This is the first personal contact of the parties for the entire time of the fighting in Mariupol, ”the military reporter of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company in Ukraine, Yevgeny Poddubny, notes in the Telegram channel.
So it starts. The alternative is pulverization...
It started 73 days ago. From a former superpower that was expected to Finnish it in three days. Pulerization is hardly a description of how it will end. More like starvation and lack of ammo.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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neverfail
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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by neverfail » Sat May 07, 2022 11:54 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 9:39 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 2:32 pm
The Ukrainian military came out in the area of ​​"Azovstal" with a white flag
by Alexandra Yudina - May 7, 2022, 14:10
https://vz.ru/news/2022/5/7/1157409.html (machine translated from Russian)

A group of Ukrainian military in the Azovstal area in Mariupol came out with a white flag to the road intended for the evacuation of civilians, said the commander of the Vostok battalion Alexander Khodakovsky.

“Towards the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the Russian military moved forward as truce envoys. This is the first personal contact of the parties for the entire time of the fighting in Mariupol, ”the military reporter of the All-Russian State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company in Ukraine, Yevgeny Poddubny, notes in the Telegram channel.
So it starts. The alternative is pulverization...
It started 73 days ago. From a former superpower that was expected to Finnish it in three days. Pulerization is hardly a description of how it will end. More like starvation and lack of ammo.
The headline is misleading anyway. The Asovstal (Asov Steel) plant was NOT being held by any wing of the regular Ukrainian military but by the controversial Asov militia; accused of being neo-Nazi.

They might be doctrinally errant but boy, while they held out did they put up a fight!

(Zelinsky and the rest of the regular Ukrainian establishment may well even quietly breathe a sigh of relief once they are gone - you know, the Russians unintentionally doing them a favour by removing the "guilt by association" factor which provided Putin with his pretext for invading Ukraine. ;) )

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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun May 08, 2022 10:53 am

Doc wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 9:39 pm
From a former superpower that was expected to Finnish it in three days.
I see what you did there. ;)
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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun May 08, 2022 10:54 am

neverfail wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 11:54 pm
(Zelinsky and the rest of the regular Ukrainian establishment may well even quietly breathe a sigh of relief once they are gone - you know, the Russians unintentionally doing them a favour by removing the "guilt by association" factor which provided Putin with his pretext for invading Ukraine. ;) )
Not that it matters, since that's not why Putin ordered the invasion. Without that one battalion on which invasion apologists hang so much justification, they would simply make up some other, even lamer excuse.
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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by neverfail » Sun May 08, 2022 3:49 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 10:54 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 11:54 pm
(Zelinsky and the rest of the regular Ukrainian establishment may well even quietly breathe a sigh of relief once they are gone - you know, the Russians unintentionally doing them a favour by removing the "guilt by association" factor which provided Putin with his pretext for invading Ukraine. ;) )
Not that it matters, since that's not why Putin ordered the invasion. Without that one battalion on which invasion apologists hang so much justification, they would simply make up some other, even lamer excuse.
That's for certain. But it makes it so much easier for Putin, with monopoly control over the Russian media, to evoke memories of the Great patriotic War Against Fascism (as Russians I believe call World War Two) and the horrors that accompanied that conflict in order to manipulate Russian public opinion in favour of his "special military operation" pre-emptive strike.

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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun May 08, 2022 5:04 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 3:49 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 10:54 am
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 11:54 pm
(Zelinsky and the rest of the regular Ukrainian establishment may well even quietly breathe a sigh of relief once they are gone - you know, the Russians unintentionally doing them a favour by removing the "guilt by association" factor which provided Putin with his pretext for invading Ukraine. ;) )
Not that it matters, since that's not why Putin ordered the invasion. Without that one battalion on which invasion apologists hang so much justification, they would simply make up some other, even lamer excuse.
That's for certain. But it makes it so much easier for Putin, with monopoly control over the Russian media, to evoke memories of the Great patriotic War Against Fascism (as Russians I believe call World War Two) and the horrors that accompanied that conflict in order to manipulate Russian public opinion in favour of his "special military operation" pre-emptive strike.
Is it easier? It seems just as easy for him simply to lie and say it's all Ukrainian policymakers, not just a few rabble-rousers that have long since been neutralised by absorption into the official military. It's not like everyday Russians will know better.
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Re: Beginning of Surrender at Azovstal

Post by Doc » Sun May 08, 2022 10:22 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 10:53 am
Doc wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 9:39 pm
From a former superpower that was expected to Finnish it in three days.
I see what you did there. ;)
:P
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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May 9th in Moscow

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 09, 2022 2:55 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 3:49 pm

That's for certain. But it makes it so much easier for Putin, with monopoly control over the Russian media, to evoke memories of the Great patriotic War Against Fascism (as Russians I believe call World War Two) and the horrors that accompanied that conflict in order to manipulate Russian public opinion in favour of his "special military operation" pre-emptive strike.
What I saw in the May 9 celebration in Moscow was a very dignified celebration, a very subdued speech by Putin, a show of strength without arrogance. Russia is indeed everything the US is unable to be and for Europe to cooperate with Russia would be a lot better for our freedom and independence than the so-called alliance with the US.

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Re: May 9th in Moscow

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon May 09, 2022 6:33 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 2:55 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun May 08, 2022 3:49 pm

That's for certain. But it makes it so much easier for Putin, with monopoly control over the Russian media, to evoke memories of the Great patriotic War Against Fascism (as Russians I believe call World War Two) and the horrors that accompanied that conflict in order to manipulate Russian public opinion in favour of his "special military operation" pre-emptive strike.
What I saw in the May 9 celebration in Moscow was a very dignified celebration, a very subdued speech by Putin, a show of strength without arrogance. Russia is indeed everything the US is unable to be and for Europe to cooperate with Russia would be a lot better for our freedom and independence than the so-called alliance with the US.
Cool story, now tell us the one about how you don't support the Putin regime. :roll:
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