Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

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Milo
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Milo » Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:21 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:43 pm
NATO member pledges to block Sweden and Finland's candidacy
https://www.rt.com/news/554563-croatia- ... to-bosnia/

Finland and Sweden joining NATO is “very dangerous charlatanry” and amounts to provoking Russia, Croatian President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday. Zagreb will refuse to ratify their membership until the US and EU pressure the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina into guaranteeing ethnic Croats their basic voting rights, Milanovic added.

“As far as I’m concerned, they can get into NATO, they can poke the rabid bear in the eye with a pen,” Milanovic told reporters in Zagreb on Tuesday.

“However, until the electoral law issue in Bosnia-Herzegovina is resolved, until the Americans, the English, the Germans – if they can and want to – compel Sarajevo and Bakir Izetbegovic to update the electoral law in the next six months and grant Croats their elementary rights, the Sabor must not ratify anyone’s admission to NATO,” he added, referring to the Croatian parliament.

NATO cannot admit new members without the approval of the current ones, Milanovic pointed out, adding that he sees Croatia’s role at this moment as “a historic silver bullet.”

“Let the US president or secretary of state hear this now. Let’s see what they can do for Croatia. I’ve had enough of them ignoring and neglecting a NATO and EU member, and sidelining Croatia,” Milanovic said, adding that if the US and its Western European allies want the two Scandinavian countries in NATO, “they will have to listen to Croatia.”

Croatia’s biggest grievance is the current electoral system in the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina, which has an ethnic Croat community recognized as equal under the 1995 constitution that ended the civil war. Zagreb insists on updates to the electoral law so that Croats in Bosnia would be able to elect their own representatives, as opposed to the current practice of having them elected by the much larger community of Bosnian Muslims, also known as Bosniaks.

In addition to Bosnia, Milanovic listed some of Zagreb’s other grievances: refusal by the EU to admit Bulgaria and Romania into the Schengen border crossing agreement, lack of recognition for the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo, and no progress in EU talks with Albania and North Macedonia – which even changed its name recently to overcome objections from Greece, to no avail.

We’re not asking Finland or Sweden to change their name to Ikea, only to tell the Americans that these things need to be resolved.

Historically neutral Sweden and Finland have both made moves to join NATO in recent weeks, citing the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Croatia became a NATO member in 2009 and joined the EU in 2013, when Milanovic was prime minister. The Social Democrat politician has been president since October 2020. It is not clear, however, if his threat to veto NATO expansion will work out in practice, since the nationalist HDZ party has the parliamentary majority.
Surprise, surprise!...
But he can’t do that.

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cassowary
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by cassowary » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:04 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:21 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:43 pm
NATO member pledges to block Sweden and Finland's candidacy
https://www.rt.com/news/554563-croatia- ... to-bosnia/

Finland and Sweden joining NATO is “very dangerous charlatanry” and amounts to provoking Russia, Croatian President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday. Zagreb will refuse to ratify their membership until the US and EU pressure the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina into guaranteeing ethnic Croats their basic voting rights, Milanovic added.

“As far as I’m concerned, they can get into NATO, they can poke the rabid bear in the eye with a pen,” Milanovic told reporters in Zagreb on Tuesday.

“However, until the electoral law issue in Bosnia-Herzegovina is resolved, until the Americans, the English, the Germans – if they can and want to – compel Sarajevo and Bakir Izetbegovic to update the electoral law in the next six months and grant Croats their elementary rights, the Sabor must not ratify anyone’s admission to NATO,” he added, referring to the Croatian parliament.

NATO cannot admit new members without the approval of the current ones, Milanovic pointed out, adding that he sees Croatia’s role at this moment as “a historic silver bullet.”

“Let the US president or secretary of state hear this now. Let’s see what they can do for Croatia. I’ve had enough of them ignoring and neglecting a NATO and EU member, and sidelining Croatia,” Milanovic said, adding that if the US and its Western European allies want the two Scandinavian countries in NATO, “they will have to listen to Croatia.”

Croatia’s biggest grievance is the current electoral system in the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina, which has an ethnic Croat community recognized as equal under the 1995 constitution that ended the civil war. Zagreb insists on updates to the electoral law so that Croats in Bosnia would be able to elect their own representatives, as opposed to the current practice of having them elected by the much larger community of Bosnian Muslims, also known as Bosniaks.

In addition to Bosnia, Milanovic listed some of Zagreb’s other grievances: refusal by the EU to admit Bulgaria and Romania into the Schengen border crossing agreement, lack of recognition for the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo, and no progress in EU talks with Albania and North Macedonia – which even changed its name recently to overcome objections from Greece, to no avail.

We’re not asking Finland or Sweden to change their name to Ikea, only to tell the Americans that these things need to be resolved.

Historically neutral Sweden and Finland have both made moves to join NATO in recent weeks, citing the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Croatia became a NATO member in 2009 and joined the EU in 2013, when Milanovic was prime minister. The Social Democrat politician has been president since October 2020. It is not clear, however, if his threat to veto NATO expansion will work out in practice, since the nationalist HDZ party has the parliamentary majority.
Surprise, surprise!...
But he can’t do that.
What Croatia wants is for Bosnia Herzegovina to change its election law to favor Croats. Then it will drop its objections.It has nothing to do withSweden’s and Finland’s desire to join NATO.
The Imp :D

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neverfail
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by neverfail » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:25 am

I can understand Croatia being concerned about the safety and security of their fellow Croats in Bosnia. The Bosnian Serbs who make up approx. one half of Bosnia's population are haters and troublemakers from way back. During then 1990's Bosnia civil war they persecuted and murdered Croats along with masses of Bosnian Muslims.

However, the admission of Sweden and Finland has nothing to do with the fate of the Bosnian Croats. Rather than let the Croatian government play politics with the issue perhaps NATO could seriously consider expelling Croatia from its ranks? I would place the value of both Sweden and Finland well ahead of that of Croatia.

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Sertorio
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Sertorio » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:51 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:25 am
I can understand Croatia being concerned about the safety and security of their fellow Croats in Bosnia. The Bosnian Serbs who make up approx. one half of Bosnia's population are haters and troublemakers from way back. During then 1990's Bosnia civil war they persecuted and murdered Croats along with masses of Bosnian Muslims.

However, the admission of Sweden and Finland has nothing to do with the fate of the Bosnian Croats. Rather than let the Croatian government play politics with the issue perhaps NATO could seriously consider expelling Croatia from its ranks? I would place the value of both Sweden and Finland well ahead of that of Croatia.
Maybe you would want to read about the Croatian Ustaše:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e

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Milo
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Milo » Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:06 am

cassowary wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:04 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:21 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:43 pm
NATO member pledges to block Sweden and Finland's candidacy
https://www.rt.com/news/554563-croatia- ... to-bosnia/

Finland and Sweden joining NATO is “very dangerous charlatanry” and amounts to provoking Russia, Croatian President Zoran Milanovic said on Tuesday. Zagreb will refuse to ratify their membership until the US and EU pressure the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina into guaranteeing ethnic Croats their basic voting rights, Milanovic added.

“As far as I’m concerned, they can get into NATO, they can poke the rabid bear in the eye with a pen,” Milanovic told reporters in Zagreb on Tuesday.

“However, until the electoral law issue in Bosnia-Herzegovina is resolved, until the Americans, the English, the Germans – if they can and want to – compel Sarajevo and Bakir Izetbegovic to update the electoral law in the next six months and grant Croats their elementary rights, the Sabor must not ratify anyone’s admission to NATO,” he added, referring to the Croatian parliament.

NATO cannot admit new members without the approval of the current ones, Milanovic pointed out, adding that he sees Croatia’s role at this moment as “a historic silver bullet.”

“Let the US president or secretary of state hear this now. Let’s see what they can do for Croatia. I’ve had enough of them ignoring and neglecting a NATO and EU member, and sidelining Croatia,” Milanovic said, adding that if the US and its Western European allies want the two Scandinavian countries in NATO, “they will have to listen to Croatia.”

Croatia’s biggest grievance is the current electoral system in the neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina, which has an ethnic Croat community recognized as equal under the 1995 constitution that ended the civil war. Zagreb insists on updates to the electoral law so that Croats in Bosnia would be able to elect their own representatives, as opposed to the current practice of having them elected by the much larger community of Bosnian Muslims, also known as Bosniaks.

In addition to Bosnia, Milanovic listed some of Zagreb’s other grievances: refusal by the EU to admit Bulgaria and Romania into the Schengen border crossing agreement, lack of recognition for the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo, and no progress in EU talks with Albania and North Macedonia – which even changed its name recently to overcome objections from Greece, to no avail.

We’re not asking Finland or Sweden to change their name to Ikea, only to tell the Americans that these things need to be resolved.

Historically neutral Sweden and Finland have both made moves to join NATO in recent weeks, citing the Russia-Ukraine conflict.

Croatia became a NATO member in 2009 and joined the EU in 2013, when Milanovic was prime minister. The Social Democrat politician has been president since October 2020. It is not clear, however, if his threat to veto NATO expansion will work out in practice, since the nationalist HDZ party has the parliamentary majority.
Surprise, surprise!...
But he can’t do that.
What Croatia wants is for Bosnia Herzegovina to change its election law to favor Croats. Then it will drop its objections.It has nothing to do withSweden’s and Finland’s desire to join NATO.
Under the Croatian constitution, the presidency is largely ceremonial, the president does not have the power to do what he is threatening.

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neverfail
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by neverfail » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:08 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:51 am

Maybe you would want to read about the Croatian Ustaše:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e
I don't need to. We had trouble in the 1960's with a band of immigrant Croatian Ustaše recalcitrants who had set up a training camp in a remote bushland location in order to prepare insurgents to return to Yugoslavia to wage a secessionist insurgency war against the Yugoslav government. The movement received plenty of (disapproving) publicity in our news media at the time.

Former Yugoslavia, the western Balkans, seems a cesspit of multiple hatreds like that - and it occupies the southeastern corner of allegedly :lol: "civilized" Europe. Now Sertorio, as a Europhile narcissist what do you have to say about that? :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Sertorio » Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:16 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 3:08 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:51 am

Maybe you would want to read about the Croatian Ustaše:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usta%C5%A1e
I don't need to. We had trouble in the 1960's with a band of immigrant Croatian Ustaše recalcitrants who had set up a training camp in a remote bushland location in order to prepare insurgents to return to Yugoslavia to wage a secessionist insurgency war against the Yugoslav government. The movement received plenty of (disapproving) publicity in our news media at the time.

Former Yugoslavia, the western Balkans, seems a cesspit of multiple hatreds like that - and it occupies the southeastern corner of allegedly :lol: "civilized" Europe. Now Sertorio, as a Europhile narcissist what do you have to say about that? :D
We have our share of bastards...

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Sertorio
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Austria and NATO

Post by Sertorio » Fri May 06, 2022 11:34 am

Poll reveals Austrians’ stance on joining NATO
https://www.rt.com/news/555094-poll-aus ... ning-nato/

The vast majority of Austrians are against becoming part of NATO, a poll has revealed. In a survey conducted earlier this month by Austria’s Institute for Opinion Polls and Data Analysis and commissioned by the Austria Press Agency, 75% of respondents replied in the negative when asked if they thought their country should join NATO, with another 14% in favor of such a scenario.

Of the 1,000 Austrians surveyed, 52% said they believe Vienna’s neutrality provides sufficient protection against external threats, while 40% did not share that view. As many as 83% of respondents spoke in favor of closer coordination on security and defense policy among EU member states.

When asked whether they thought Ukraine should be let into the European Union, 46% said they opposed Kiev’s accession, with another 38% indicating that they would support it.
Maybe Austrians are smarter than Swedes and Finns...

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm

Or maybe, like you, they know others are closer to the maw of the crocodile and are happy to sit back while being defended by others.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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cassowary
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by cassowary » Fri May 06, 2022 9:45 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 12:38 pm
Or maybe, like you, they know others are closer to the maw of the crocodile and are happy to sit back while being defended by others.
That seems likely.
The Imp :D

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