Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

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Sertorio
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Sertorio » Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:32 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:24 pm

What Sweden and Finland should understand is that now their countries are not targeted by Russian nuclear missiles. Once in NATO they will be... Which situation is better in terms of the safety of those countries?...
True. But they also realise that any Attack on a NATO member will be met by the armed forces of the entire organization. NATO has deterrent value. Ukraine is not a member and has to fight alone.
Don't count on it. Depends on who is attacked... I will bet anything that if Russia decided to neutralize the Baltic states, NATO wouldn't react militarily...

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neverfail
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by neverfail » Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:55 pm

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/14/wh ... ffer-nato/

What Finland Can Offer NATO

The end of neutrality for a famously neutral country would be a blow to Putin and enhance the alliance’s intelligence capabilities.
Oh wow! To repeat a by now much cliched saying "this country has money of its own to bring to the table."

It will also likely to feed Vlad Putin's paranoia about NATO encroachment on his Russia but so what? He brought it down on himself.

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Sertorio
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Sertorio » Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:07 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:55 pm
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/14/wh ... ffer-nato/

What Finland Can Offer NATO

The end of neutrality for a famously neutral country would be a blow to Putin and enhance the alliance’s intelligence capabilities.
Oh wow! To repeat a by now much cliched saying "this country has money of its own to bring to the table."

It will also likely to feed Vlad Putin's paranoia about NATO encroachment on his Russia but so what? He brought it down on himself.
Like the Ukraine did by wanting to join NATO...

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cassowary
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by cassowary » Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:42 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:32 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:24 pm

What Sweden and Finland should understand is that now their countries are not targeted by Russian nuclear missiles. Once in NATO they will be... Which situation is better in terms of the safety of those countries?...
True. But they also realise that any Attack on a NATO member will be met by the armed forces of the entire organization. NATO has deterrent value. Ukraine is not a member and has to fight alone.
Don't count on it. Depends on who is attacked... I will bet anything that if Russia decided to neutralize the Baltic states, NATO wouldn't react militarily...
I think NATO will since they are part of NATO.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by cassowary » Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:44 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:07 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:55 pm
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/04/14/wh ... ffer-nato/

What Finland Can Offer NATO

The end of neutrality for a famously neutral country would be a blow to Putin and enhance the alliance’s intelligence capabilities.
Oh wow! To repeat a by now much cliched saying "this country has money of its own to bring to the table."

It will also likely to feed Vlad Putin's paranoia about NATO encroachment on his Russia but so what? He brought it down on himself.
Like the Ukraine did by wanting to join NATO...
Ukraine got rejected by NATO and is not part of NATO.
The Imp :D

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neverfail
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by neverfail » Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:57 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 5:42 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:32 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:24 pm

What Sweden and Finland should understand is that now their countries are not targeted by Russian nuclear missiles. Once in NATO they will be... Which situation is better in terms of the safety of those countries?...
True. But they also realise that any Attack on a NATO member will be met by the armed forces of the entire organization. NATO has deterrent value. Ukraine is not a member and has to fight alone.
Don't count on it. Depends on who is attacked... I will bet anything that if Russia decided to neutralize the Baltic states, NATO wouldn't react militarily...
I think NATO will since they are part of NATO.
Exactly right! If the other members of the pact (including the US and Canada) did not immediately rally to the defense of even one member if brutally invaded (sorry Sertorio, that's "neutralized") then it would not be worth having and would promptly disintegrate.

(As an aside: I envy the NATO member countries for belonging to a pact whose letters oblige participants to actually defend one another. We, along with the USA and New Zealand have a defense treaty but if one is attacked by a foreign power the terms and conditions oblige the members only to consult (you know, consult; as in yakity yakity yak-ah-tah?). yet as far back as I can remember our opinion shaping establishment have marketed that flawed treaty as a gilt edged guarantee that the United States would rush to our defense. I know not if these are in a state of denial or plain lying but they seem not to have read the wording with any care.)

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by SteveFoerster » Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:46 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:32 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:24 pm

What Sweden and Finland should understand is that now their countries are not targeted by Russian nuclear missiles. Once in NATO they will be... Which situation is better in terms of the safety of those countries?...
True. But they also realise that any Attack on a NATO member will be met by the armed forces of the entire organization. NATO has deterrent value. Ukraine is not a member and has to fight alone.
Don't count on it. Depends on who is attacked... I will bet anything that if Russia decided to neutralize the Baltic states, NATO wouldn't react militarily...
Then I just hope Putin isn't as big a fool as you are.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Sertorio
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:41 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 8:46 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:32 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:26 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:24 pm

What Sweden and Finland should understand is that now their countries are not targeted by Russian nuclear missiles. Once in NATO they will be... Which situation is better in terms of the safety of those countries?...
True. But they also realise that any Attack on a NATO member will be met by the armed forces of the entire organization. NATO has deterrent value. Ukraine is not a member and has to fight alone.
Don't count on it. Depends on who is attacked... I will bet anything that if Russia decided to neutralize the Baltic states, NATO wouldn't react militarily...
Then I just hope Putin isn't as big a fool as you are.
The US has always betrayed its allies when it felt it was in its immediate interest to do so. Why would it stop now?...

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neverfail
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Location: Australia

Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by neverfail » Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:43 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:41 am
The US has always betrayed its allies when it felt it was in its immediate interest to do so. Why would it stop now?...
Name the allies the US has betrayed and when.

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Sertorio
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Re: Finland wants to join NATO. Putin issues threat, launched cyberattack and breached airspace

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 25, 2022 3:01 pm

neverfail wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 2:43 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Apr 25, 2022 12:41 am
The US has always betrayed its allies when it felt it was in its immediate interest to do so. Why would it stop now?...
Name the allies the US has betrayed and when.
Britain and France during the Suez Canal crisis; South Vietnam when the US made a deal with North Vietnam...

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