Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

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Sertorio
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Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Sertorio » Mon Jan 10, 2022 3:43 am

Expert: SpaceX satellites' near collision with Chinese space station could be deliberate tests
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2021-12-28/S ... index.html

The satellites from Starlink Internet Services, a division of Tesla founder Elon Musk's SpaceX aerospace company, had two "close encounters" with China's space station this year, according to a document submitted by China earlier this month to the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs.

According to the document, China completed five launch missions in 2021, with the successful launch into orbit of the Tianhe core module of its space station, the Tianzhou-2 and Tianzhou-3 cargo spacecraft and the Shenzhou-13 and Shenzhou-14 crewed spacecraft. China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees.

However, on July 1 and October 21, Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had two close encounters with China's space station, causing it to implement preventive collision avoidance control, the document said.

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers.

"But we can't rule out the possibility that the move is intended to test China's capacity in space to check whether China can accurately grasp the satellites' actions," Huang said.

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.

The Treaty on Principles Governing the Activities of States in the Exploration and Use of Outer Space provides that state parties to the treaty immediately inform the other state parties to the treaty or the secretary-general of the UN of any phenomena they discover in outer space. China informed the secretary-general of the two encounters, which constituted dangers to the life or health of the astronauts aboard the China Space Station, according to the document.

With nearly 30,000 satellites and other debris believed to be orbiting the planet, scientists have urged governments to share data to reduce the risk of catastrophic space collisions. SpaceX alone has deployed nearly 1,900 satellites to serve its Starlink broadband network and plans to launch more.

U.S. space agency NASA was forced to abruptly call off a spacewalk at the end of November, citing risks posed by space debris. Musk tweeted in response that some Starlink satellite orbits had been adjusted to reduce the possibility of collisions.
The US is getting increasingly desperate in respect of China so it wouldn't be unthinkable for the US to try and damage or even destroy China's space station. When the US no longer can compete with other powers, war or warlike actions are readily used. We will see more of that in the near future.

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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:50 am

There are instances where the capabilities of Xi regime is tested by the U.S., and vice versa. That's just part of the great game. But there's no reason at all to think this is an example of that. It looks a lot more like the Xi regime is trying to stir up patriotism by pretending they're being oppressed.

I say this because low Earth orbit is pretty crowded, and space debris has been a known, serious problem for a long time. Musk's satellites haven't actually hit anything, and anything within a kilometre is considered a "close encounter".

Consider the Chinese satellite that was destroyed by a piece of debris from an old Russian launch ten months ago:
While the incidents mentioned above are of near-misses, in March this year, a Chinese satellite mysteriously broke apart and scattered into dozens of pieces. In August, a Harvard astronomer noted that it was highly likely that the satellite collided with a chunk of a Russian rocket.

The US Space Force sensors had detected new debris from the Chinese satellite called Yunhai 1-02 in mid-March. The satellite was fairly new and it wasn’t to break down due to regular wear and tear. No other reason for the breakdown was revealed.

Astronomer Jonathan McDowell, however, noticed that the Space Force had updated its space-debris catalog. The change marked object 48078 — a piece of a Russian Zenit-2 rocket that was launched in 1996 — with a note: “collided with satellite”.

Jonathan went through the orbital data and found that the object and the Yunhai satellite passed within a kilometer of each other on the day that the latter broke apart. This collision seems to be the most recent one where two large objects orbiting the earth ran into each other. The last time this happened was in 2009.

These incidents collectively point towards space debris becoming a greater risk for assets and people in space.
Besides, Musk has done a lot to develop a relationship with the Xi regime. His Tesla car company is popular in China, recently even opening a showroom in the capital of East Turkistan.

So to answer your silly question: no, he's not.
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Milo
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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Milo » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:50 am
There are instances where the capabilities of Xi regime is tested by the U.S., and vice versa. That's just part of the great game. But there's no reason at all to think this is an example of that. It looks a lot more like the Xi regime is trying to stir up patriotism by pretending they're being oppressed.

I say this because low Earth orbit is pretty crowded, and space debris has been a known, serious problem for a long time. Musk's satellites haven't actually hit anything, and anything within a kilometre is considered a "close encounter".

Consider the Chinese satellite that was destroyed by a piece of debris from an old Russian launch ten months ago:
While the incidents mentioned above are of near-misses, in March this year, a Chinese satellite mysteriously broke apart and scattered into dozens of pieces. In August, a Harvard astronomer noted that it was highly likely that the satellite collided with a chunk of a Russian rocket.

The US Space Force sensors had detected new debris from the Chinese satellite called Yunhai 1-02 in mid-March. The satellite was fairly new and it wasn’t to break down due to regular wear and tear. No other reason for the breakdown was revealed.

Astronomer Jonathan McDowell, however, noticed that the Space Force had updated its space-debris catalog. The change marked object 48078 — a piece of a Russian Zenit-2 rocket that was launched in 1996 — with a note: “collided with satellite”.

Jonathan went through the orbital data and found that the object and the Yunhai satellite passed within a kilometer of each other on the day that the latter broke apart. This collision seems to be the most recent one where two large objects orbiting the earth ran into each other. The last time this happened was in 2009.

These incidents collectively point towards space debris becoming a greater risk for assets and people in space.
Besides, Musk has done a lot to develop a relationship with the Xi regime. His Tesla car company is popular in China, recently even opening a showroom in the capital of East Turkistan.

So to answer your silly question: no, he's not.
Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.

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IS Sertorio trying to damage the "enemies"(others that have more advance technology than the CCP) of the CCP?

Post by Doc » Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:32 am

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Sertorio » Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:48 am

Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.
Except that the Musk satellites were in safe orbits and then they were deliberately brought close to the Chinese space station orbit.
China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees. (...)

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers. (...)

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.
So, this was no accident and certainly not the result of overcrowded space...

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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by SteveFoerster » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:09 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:48 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.
Except that the Musk satellites were in safe orbits and then they were deliberately brought close to the Chinese space station orbit.
China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees. (...)

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers. (...)

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.
So, this was no accident and certainly not the result of overcrowded space...
We don't know that. It could have been a software glitch, mechanical failure, operator error, or any number of other things. But I'll grant you this: it's reasonable to expect SpaceX to provide an explanation.
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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Milo » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:33 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:09 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:48 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.
Except that the Musk satellites were in safe orbits and then they were deliberately brought close to the Chinese space station orbit.
China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees. (...)

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers. (...)

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.
So, this was no accident and certainly not the result of overcrowded space...
We don't know that. It could have been a software glitch, mechanical failure, operator error, or any number of other things. But I'll grant you this: it's reasonable to expect SpaceX to provide an explanation.
I thought that the space junk problem was pretty much cleared up, in the sense of disclosure by the junkers and protocols for the potential junkees.

Although Musk is right, that space is very big and the junk is very small, some orbits are much more desirable and will be much more crowded.

Perhaps more needs to be done here. OTOH, China will make any accusations it deems to be in its interest and the truthfulness of them is not a factor, nor is there an opposition or free media to hold them to account.

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Sertorio » Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:37 am

Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:33 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:09 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:48 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.
Except that the Musk satellites were in safe orbits and then they were deliberately brought close to the Chinese space station orbit.
China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees. (...)

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers. (...)

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.
So, this was no accident and certainly not the result of overcrowded space...
We don't know that. It could have been a software glitch, mechanical failure, operator error, or any number of other things. But I'll grant you this: it's reasonable to expect SpaceX to provide an explanation.
I thought that the space junk problem was pretty much cleared up, in the sense of disclosure by the junkers and protocols for the potential junkees.

Although Musk is right, that space is very big and the junk is very small, some orbits are much more desirable and will be much more crowded.

Perhaps more needs to be done here. OTOH, China will make any accusations it deems to be in its interest and the truthfulness of them is not a factor, nor is there an opposition or free media to hold them to account.
Forget China. What do YOU think happened here?...

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Milo
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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Milo » Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:37 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:33 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:09 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:48 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.
Except that the Musk satellites were in safe orbits and then they were deliberately brought close to the Chinese space station orbit.
China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees. (...)

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers. (...)

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.
So, this was no accident and certainly not the result of overcrowded space...
We don't know that. It could have been a software glitch, mechanical failure, operator error, or any number of other things. But I'll grant you this: it's reasonable to expect SpaceX to provide an explanation.
I thought that the space junk problem was pretty much cleared up, in the sense of disclosure by the junkers and protocols for the potential junkees.

Although Musk is right, that space is very big and the junk is very small, some orbits are much more desirable and will be much more crowded.

Perhaps more needs to be done here. OTOH,China will make any accusations it deems to be in its interest and the truthfulness of them is not a factor, nor is there an opposition or free media to hold them to account .
Forget China. What do YOU think happened here?...
I think you emphasized the wrong phrase.

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Sertorio
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Re: Is Elon Musk Trying to Damage the Chinese Space Station?

Post by Sertorio » Mon Jan 10, 2022 2:03 pm

Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 1:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:37 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:33 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 11:09 am
Sertorio wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 10:48 am
Milo wrote:
Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:14 am

Is it possible that the Russian missile test that threatened the ISS was a deliberate attempt to damage it? I don’t remember Sertorio raising such a question at that time.
Except that the Musk satellites were in safe orbits and then they were deliberately brought close to the Chinese space station orbit.
China's space station is in a stable near-circular orbit at an altitude of around 390 kilometers on an orbital inclination of about 41.5 degrees. (...)

Huang Zhicheng, a senior expert on aerospace science and technology, told the Global Times on Monday that the Starlink satellites launched by SpaceX had always orbited an altitude of around 550 kilometers. (...)

From April 19, 2020, the Starlink-1095 satellite was in stable orbit at an average altitude of around 555 kilometers. Between May 16 and June 24, 2021, the Starlink-1095 satellite maneuvered continuously to an orbit of around 382 kilometers and then stayed in that orbit. A close encounter occurred between the Starlink-1095 satellite and China's space station on July 1, 2021.

On October 21, 2021, the Starlink-2305 satellite had a subsequent close encounter with China's space station. As the satellite was continuously maneuvering, the maneuver strategy was unknown and orbital errors were hard to assess, so there was a collision risk between the Starlink-2305 satellite and the space station.
So, this was no accident and certainly not the result of overcrowded space...
We don't know that. It could have been a software glitch, mechanical failure, operator error, or any number of other things. But I'll grant you this: it's reasonable to expect SpaceX to provide an explanation.
I thought that the space junk problem was pretty much cleared up, in the sense of disclosure by the junkers and protocols for the potential junkees.

Although Musk is right, that space is very big and the junk is very small, some orbits are much more desirable and will be much more crowded.

Perhaps more needs to be done here. OTOH,China will make any accusations it deems to be in its interest and the truthfulness of them is not a factor, nor is there an opposition or free media to hold them to account .
Forget China. What do YOU think happened here?...
I think you emphasized the wrong phrase.
The lack of an opposition - as we understand it in Europe - doesn't mean that what China says cannot be true...

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