Boycotts Against China

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neverfail
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:42 am
Myself at the top?... All I want is to enjoy my retirement!... :lol:
Yes Cass. In past posts I can recall Sertorio testifying that he was no fan of totalitarian power structures such as the USSR of old or present day North Korea but broadly respects the democratic process - like the one that has come to pass in his home country Portugal during his lifetime.

That makes Sertorio more like a harmless social-democrat rather than the sort of monster you seem to see all socialists as being.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:46 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:42 am
Myself at the top?... All I want is to enjoy my retirement!... :lol:
Yes Cass. In past posts I can recall Sertorio testifying that he was no fan of totalitarian power structures such as the USSR of old or present day North Korea but broadly respects the democratic process - like the one that has come to pass in his home country Portugal during his lifetime.

That makes Sertorio more like a harmless social-democrat rather than the sort of monster you seem to see all socialists as being.
You're apparently assuming he was telling the truth in that one instance, rather than in the countless instances where he's excited about the prospect of a democratic country and its social democratic allies being brought low from conflict with the most totalitarian regimes on Earth.
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Sertorio
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by Sertorio » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:13 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:46 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:42 am
Myself at the top?... All I want is to enjoy my retirement!... :lol:
Yes Cass. In past posts I can recall Sertorio testifying that he was no fan of totalitarian power structures such as the USSR of old or present day North Korea but broadly respects the democratic process - like the one that has come to pass in his home country Portugal during his lifetime.

That makes Sertorio more like a harmless social-democrat rather than the sort of monster you seem to see all socialists as being.
You're apparently assuming he was telling the truth in that one instance, rather than in the countless instances where he's excited about the prospect of a democratic country and its social democratic allies being brought low from conflict with the most totalitarian regimes on Earth.
Is that "democratic country" the US?... :lol:

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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:49 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:46 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:42 am
Myself at the top?... All I want is to enjoy my retirement!... :lol:
Yes Cass. In past posts I can recall Sertorio testifying that he was no fan of totalitarian power structures such as the USSR of old or present day North Korea but broadly respects the democratic process - like the one that has come to pass in his home country Portugal during his lifetime.

That makes Sertorio more like a harmless social-democrat rather than the sort of monster you seem to see all socialists as being.
You're apparently assuming he was telling the truth in that one instance, rather than in the countless instances where he's excited about the prospect of a democratic country and its social democratic allies being brought low from conflict with the most totalitarian regimes on Earth.
Is that "democratic country" the US?... :lol:
So, on Sertorio's planet, the U.S. is not a democratic country, but we're supposed to take Lukashenko's sham election seriously. :lol:
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neverfail
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by neverfail » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:37 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:46 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:42 am
Myself at the top?... All I want is to enjoy my retirement!... :lol:
Yes Cass. In past posts I can recall Sertorio testifying that he was no fan of totalitarian power structures such as the USSR of old or present day North Korea but broadly respects the democratic process - like the one that has come to pass in his home country Portugal during his lifetime.

That makes Sertorio more like a harmless social-democrat rather than the sort of monster you seem to see all socialists as being.
You're apparently assuming he was telling the truth in that one instance, rather than in the countless instances where he's excited about the prospect of a democratic country and its social democratic allies being brought low from conflict with the most totalitarian regimes on Earth.
I took that into account also Steve and concluded that Sertorio was more concerned about "restored power balance" than about the nature and disposition of the regimes opposed to the US.

You must concede that inbetween the demise of the USSR and its empire of satellite states and the rise of China as an economic (increasingly a military) superpower that can challenge US primacy; this latter was for almost two decades unchallenged as the global superpower. Even when the dominant power is the USA it is not necessarily good news for lesser powers. Not for all of them anyhow.

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Sertorio
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:17 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:49 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 5:13 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:46 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:33 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:42 am
Myself at the top?... All I want is to enjoy my retirement!... :lol:
Yes Cass. In past posts I can recall Sertorio testifying that he was no fan of totalitarian power structures such as the USSR of old or present day North Korea but broadly respects the democratic process - like the one that has come to pass in his home country Portugal during his lifetime.

That makes Sertorio more like a harmless social-democrat rather than the sort of monster you seem to see all socialists as being.
You're apparently assuming he was telling the truth in that one instance, rather than in the countless instances where he's excited about the prospect of a democratic country and its social democratic allies being brought low from conflict with the most totalitarian regimes on Earth.
Is that "democratic country" the US?... :lol:
So, on Sertorio's planet, the U.S. is not a democratic country, but we're supposed to take Lukashenko's sham election seriously. :lol:
The US violates so often the rules of democracy that one can indeed doubt the US is still a democratic country. Of course Lukashenko is not a democrat, and elections in the Belarus may be flawed. But that's none of our business.

As I said before, my safety and the safety of my country is not endangered by either Russia or China, but it is certainly endangered by the aggressive policies of the US. The US is provoking Russia to a point when Russia may have no alternative but resist militarily. If that happens I may suffer, but the responsibility is 100% with the US and its hegemonic fantasies.

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neverfail
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by neverfail » Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:45 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:17 am

The US is provoking Russia to a point when Russia may have no alternative but resist militarily.
No alternative? There is always an alternative. Russia's Vladimar Putin could simply ignore alleged US "provocation" thereby getting Russia out of the great power game for good. With a national economy only about the size of Canada's Russia lacks the substantial "weight" to play great power games with the big boys.

"Provocation?" Has not Putin been repeatedly provoking Ukraine for years now? Did he not provoke it when he annexed Crimea? When he formented violent rebellion in the Donbass region? Yet being a far weaker military power than Russia and therefore unable to defend itself against its big neighbour Ukraine has had no choice but to endure it all with a painted on grin and the occasional loud verbal protest.

Does Ukraine not deserve to have someone to stand up for it? That NATO is doing so strikes me as only being a matter of international justice on its' part.
........................................................................................................................................

Forget about Portugal being put in any danger by the US Sertorio. Portugal was not invaded by anyone during the two World Wars: not because it was officially neutral during both (so were the Low Countries but they were invaded) but because located at the extreme southweastern corner of Europe it was geostrategically of utterly no value to any of the belligerants. Portugal's geographic location (and irrelevance) has not changed since so you can sleep soundly at night Sertorio. :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by Sertorio » Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:12 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:45 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:17 am

The US is provoking Russia to a point when Russia may have no alternative but resist militarily.
No alternative? There is always an alternative. Russia's Vladimar Putin could simply ignore alleged US "provocation" thereby getting Russia out of the great power game for good. With a national economy only about the size of Canada's Russia lacks the substantial "weight" to play great power games with the big boys.

"Provocation?" Has not Putin been repeatedly provoking Ukraine for years now? Did he not provoke it when he annexed Crimea? When he formented violent rebellion in the Donbass region? Yet being a far weaker military power than Russia and therefore unable to defend itself against its big neighbour Ukraine has had no choice but to endure it all with a painted on grin and the occasional loud verbal protest.

Does Ukraine not deserve to have someone to stand up for it? That NATO is doing so strikes me as only being a matter of international justice on its' part.
........................................................................................................................................

Forget about Portugal being put in any danger by the US Sertorio. Portugal was not invaded by anyone during the two World Wars: not because it was officially neutral during both (so were the Low Countries but they were invaded) but because located at the extreme southweastern corner of Europe it was geostrategically of utterly no value to any of the belligerants. Portugal's geographic location (and irrelevance) has not changed since so you can sleep soundly at night Sertorio. :D
Russia did not provoke the Ukraine, it was provoked by that country. When it tried to unilaterally end the Russian lease on its naval bases in the Crimea, when it tried to curtail the cultural and language rights of ethnic Russians in East Ukraine, when it militarily attacked the civilian population of the Donbass. Russia had to respond, and it did, more moderately than the the US would have done, had it been in Russia's position. NATO's interference only makes the situation worse, for the Ukrainians...

By the way. Portugal was not neutral in WWI. And while the US will not invade us, it can seriously harm our legitimate interests.

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Milo
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by Milo » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:20 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 5:12 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:45 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:17 am

The US is provoking Russia to a point when Russia may have no alternative but resist militarily.
No alternative? There is always an alternative. Russia's Vladimar Putin could simply ignore alleged US "provocation" thereby getting Russia out of the great power game for good. With a national economy only about the size of Canada's Russia lacks the substantial "weight" to play great power games with the big boys.

"Provocation?" Has not Putin been repeatedly provoking Ukraine for years now? Did he not provoke it when he annexed Crimea? When he formented violent rebellion in the Donbass region? Yet being a far weaker military power than Russia and therefore unable to defend itself against its big neighbour Ukraine has had no choice but to endure it all with a painted on grin and the occasional loud verbal protest.

Does Ukraine not deserve to have someone to stand up for it? That NATO is doing so strikes me as only being a matter of international justice on its' part.
........................................................................................................................................

Forget about Portugal being put in any danger by the US Sertorio. Portugal was not invaded by anyone during the two World Wars: not because it was officially neutral during both (so were the Low Countries but they were invaded) but because located at the extreme southweastern corner of Europe it was geostrategically of utterly no value to any of the belligerants. Portugal's geographic location (and irrelevance) has not changed since so you can sleep soundly at night Sertorio. :D
Russia did not provoke the Ukraine, it was provoked by that country. When it tried to unilaterally end the Russian lease on its naval bases in the Crimea, when it tried to curtail the cultural and language rights of ethnic Russians in East Ukraine, when it militarily attacked the civilian population of the Donbass. Russia had to respond, and it did, more moderately than the the US would have done, had it been in Russia's position. NATO's interference only makes the situation worse, for the Ukrainians...

By the way. Portugal was not neutral in WWI. And while the US will not invade us, it can seriously harm our legitimate interests.
I find no mention of the Ukraine trying to end that lease. Russia was the one who terminated the treaty allowing the continued use of the base:
On 28 March 2014, one week after the annexation of Crimea by Russia[7] Russian President Vladimir Putin submitted proposals to the State Duma on the termination of the legal effect of a number of Russian-Ukrainian agreements, including the 2010 Kharkiv Pact treaty and the Partition Treaty on the Status and Conditions of the Black Sea Fleet.[9] The State Duma unanimously approved the unilateral dissolution of these Russian-Ukrainian agreements with 433 members of parliament voting on 31 March 2014.[8]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_P ... _by_Russia

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Boycotts Against China

Post by SteveFoerster » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:43 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:37 pm
You must concede that inbetween the demise of the USSR and its empire of satellite states and the rise of China as an economic (increasingly a military) superpower that can challenge US primacy; this latter was for almost two decades unchallenged as the global superpower. Even when the dominant power is the USA it is not necessarily good news for lesser powers. Not for all of them anyhow.
"Concede" makes it sound like I haven't regularly agreed that U.S. military interventionism has led to a litany of disasters-of-choice in the Middle East. In every case I can think of, both the American people and the people of the Middle East would have been better off had the U.S. simply done nothing.

That said, however, excitedly hoping for it to be brought low by powers that are much, much worse, to the point of becoming an apologist for those powers, is beyond foolish.
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