Prepare for Armageddona

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Doc
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Doc » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:08 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:17 pm
In a normal country with a true free market, we let the private sector make the decisions. At the end of the year, civil servants go out to measure the economic activity. So in a free market economy, developers will decide on how many apartments to build, based on their best judgement on the demand for apartments.
Under that definition, I can't name a single country with a "true free market". What the world has is corporatism, where government policymakers and corporate executives share power over those decisions, often uneasily.
h

What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am
What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Milo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:43 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am
What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Or anywhere else!

The closest was HK before Beijing messed it up.

But is five years really that unusual? And maybe government should try to ensure that private industry doesn’t just kill us all?


neverfail
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by neverfail » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:08 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:17 pm
In a normal country with a true free market, we let the private sector make the decisions. At the end of the year, civil servants go out to measure the economic activity. So in a free market economy, developers will decide on how many apartments to build, based on their best judgement on the demand for apartments.
Under that definition, I can't name a single country with a "true free market". What the world has is corporatism, where government policymakers and corporate executives share power over those decisions, often uneasily.
Above post wrongly attributed to me.

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Doc
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Doc » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:43 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am
What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Or anywhere else!

The closest was HK before Beijing messed it up.

But is five years really that unusual? And maybe government should try to ensure that private industry doesn’t just kill us all?

In the US? Yes. Start of paperwork to building complete in some states is 18 months. There are restrictions like available water is some places like AZ. Water has been short in CA but that has nothing to do with the current homeless crisis/scandal there. NYC has taken to deal with its homeless by paying to ship them out to others states that do not have a homeless crisis.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:17 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:58 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:08 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:17 pm
In a normal country with a true free market, we let the private sector make the decisions. At the end of the year, civil servants go out to measure the economic activity. So in a free market economy, developers will decide on how many apartments to build, based on their best judgement on the demand for apartments.
Under that definition, I can't name a single country with a "true free market". What the world has is corporatism, where government policymakers and corporate executives share power over those decisions, often uneasily.
Above post wrongly attributed to me.
Not sure how that happened, but sorry.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Milo
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Milo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:34 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:43 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am
What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Or anywhere else!

The closest was HK before Beijing messed it up.

But is five years really that unusual? And maybe government should try to ensure that private industry doesn’t just kill us all?

In the US? Yes. Start of paperwork to building complete in some states is 18 months. There are restrictions like available water is some places like AZ. Water has been short in CA but that has nothing to do with the current homeless crisis/scandal there. NYC has taken to deal with its homeless by paying to ship them out to others states that do not have a homeless crisis.
So it’s hardly same day approval wherever you are!

Maybe some fat cats paid for some astroturf here.

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Doc
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Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Doc » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:40 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:43 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am
What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Or anywhere else!

The closest was HK before Beijing messed it up.

But is five years really that unusual? And maybe government should try to ensure that private industry doesn’t just kill us all?

In the US? Yes. Start of paperwork to building complete in some states is 18 months. There are restrictions like available water is some places like AZ. Water has been short in CA but that has nothing to do with the current homeless crisis/scandal there. NYC has taken to deal with its homeless by paying to ship them out to others states that do not have a homeless crisis.
So it’s hardly same day approval wherever you are!

Maybe some fat cats paid for some astroturf here.
Yeah but you put out a million dollars on the chance you will get it back plus a profit. So is that housing going to be more or less expensive if you have to wait 5 years to get your money back? And remember in California there is a massive shortage of housing, with still growing demand. So does waiting 5 years to get the Apartment building built help or hurt the homeless crisis?
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 3519
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Milo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:47 pm

Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:40 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:43 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:35 am
What they don't mention is that it takes 5 years to get all the needed permits to build an apartment building in California
Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Or anywhere else!

The closest was HK before Beijing messed it up.

But is five years really that unusual? And maybe government should try to ensure that private industry doesn’t just kill us all?

In the US? Yes. Start of paperwork to building complete in some states is 18 months. There are restrictions like available water is some places like AZ. Water has been short in CA but that has nothing to do with the current homeless crisis/scandal there. NYC has taken to deal with its homeless by paying to ship them out to others states that do not have a homeless crisis.
So it’s hardly same day approval wherever you are!

Maybe some fat cats paid for some astroturf here.
Yeah but you put out a million dollars on the chance you will get it back plus a profit. So is that housing going to be more or less expensive if you have to wait 5 years to get your money back? And remember in California there is a massive shortage of housing, with still growing demand. So does waiting 5 years to get the Apartment building built help or hurt the homeless crisis?
Depends if the building doesn't fall over or catch fire, because the regulators make the developer adhere to some standards.

I know you put your faith in a sleezy property developer long ago but I do not have such faith.

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Doc
Posts: 6259
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Prepare for Armageddona

Post by Doc » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:50 pm

Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:47 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:40 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:34 pm
Doc wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm
Milo wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:43 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:21 am

Right, countless examples like that make it clear the phrase "free market" doesn't apply here at all.
Or anywhere else!

The closest was HK before Beijing messed it up.

But is five years really that unusual? And maybe government should try to ensure that private industry doesn’t just kill us all?

In the US? Yes. Start of paperwork to building complete in some states is 18 months. There are restrictions like available water is some places like AZ. Water has been short in CA but that has nothing to do with the current homeless crisis/scandal there. NYC has taken to deal with its homeless by paying to ship them out to others states that do not have a homeless crisis.
So it’s hardly same day approval wherever you are!

Maybe some fat cats paid for some astroturf here.
Yeah but you put out a million dollars on the chance you will get it back plus a profit. So is that housing going to be more or less expensive if you have to wait 5 years to get your money back? And remember in California there is a massive shortage of housing, with still growing demand. So does waiting 5 years to get the Apartment building built help or hurt the homeless crisis?
Depends if the building doesn't fall over or catch fire, because the regulators make the developer adhere to some standards.


I know you put your faith in a sleezy property developer long ago but I do not have such faith.
I know you put your faith in sleazy politicians long ago but I do not have such faith. ;)

A lot of these developers build the buildings with the idea that *they* are going to rent out the apartments. Otherwise they would more often than not sell them as condos. People living in the street in flith don't usually have money good enough credit references to buy a condo.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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