Why America failed in Afghanistan

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:41 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:27 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:38 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:53 am
The US stayed in Europe after 1989, as I said, exclusively to prevent Europe developing a partnership with Russia. A partnership that makes all sense. And because it makes sense it will happen, no matter how imperial the US tries to be. The days of American supremacy are over and Europe will soon go its own way.
The only "partnership" with Russia that Europe faces is at the barrel of a Russian gun. I truly hope that someday Russia becomes genuinely democratic and open and that changes. Until then, Europeans are right to remain vigilant, and if American taxpayers will foot the bill for them, so much the better for them and worse for us.
We absolutely do not feel threatened by Russia. Putin may be authoritarian, but that's the Russians' problem, not ours. In relations between Russia and Europe we have been a lot less trustworthy than the Russians.
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Sertorio
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Sertorio » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:52 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:27 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:38 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:53 am
The US stayed in Europe after 1989, as I said, exclusively to prevent Europe developing a partnership with Russia. A partnership that makes all sense. And because it makes sense it will happen, no matter how imperial the US tries to be. The days of American supremacy are over and Europe will soon go its own way.
The only "partnership" with Russia that Europe faces is at the barrel of a Russian gun. I truly hope that someday Russia becomes genuinely democratic and open and that changes. Until then, Europeans are right to remain vigilant, and if American taxpayers will foot the bill for them, so much the better for them and worse for us.
We absolutely do not feel threatened by Russia. Putin may be authoritarian, but that's the Russians' problem, not ours. In relations between Russia and Europe we have been a lot less trustworthy than the Russians.
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This is how you usually signal that you don't know how to respond... :lol:

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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by SteveFoerster » Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:41 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:52 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:27 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:38 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:53 am
The US stayed in Europe after 1989, as I said, exclusively to prevent Europe developing a partnership with Russia. A partnership that makes all sense. And because it makes sense it will happen, no matter how imperial the US tries to be. The days of American supremacy are over and Europe will soon go its own way.
The only "partnership" with Russia that Europe faces is at the barrel of a Russian gun. I truly hope that someday Russia becomes genuinely democratic and open and that changes. Until then, Europeans are right to remain vigilant, and if American taxpayers will foot the bill for them, so much the better for them and worse for us.
We absolutely do not feel threatened by Russia. Putin may be authoritarian, but that's the Russians' problem, not ours. In relations between Russia and Europe we have been a lot less trustworthy than the Russians.
Image
This is how you usually signal that you don't know how to respond... :lol:
By pointing out that once again you have said "we" to divert attention from your position being that of a lone crackpot? I could use all those words if you want, but my way is more fun for me.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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Sertorio
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Sertorio » Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:44 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:41 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:52 am
In relations between Russia and Europe we have been a lot less trustworthy than the Russians.
SteveFoerster wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:41 am
By pointing out that once again you have said "we" to divert attention from your position being that of a lone crackpot? I could use all those words if you want, but my way is more fun for me.
We, Europeans, not just me, have indeed been a lot less trustworthy than the Russians. Do you doubt it?...

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Doc
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Doc » Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:40 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:53 am
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 am
The original objective was to keep the soviet Union from over running a destroyed in WWII Europe Once the Soviet Union collapsed US troops should have been moved out out of Europe.
In your opinion Doc why were they not?
Interesting question. I think there were a group of people that did not want to lose power as a group. The US middle class has been paying taxes to defend Europe since 1945. I don"t hear many thanks yous for that. More like smug superiority of a con man that has taken a mark for all they are worth
The US stayed in Europe after 1989, as I said, exclusively to prevent Europe developing a partnership with Russia. A partnership that makes all sense. And because it makes sense it will happen, no matter how imperial the US tries to be. The days of American supremacy are over and Europe will soon go its own way.
The communist regime fell in 1991 not 1989. I put it like this. It is time for lazy European socialist governments to stop sponging off the US middle class. I still remember how the Leaders of the big European countries complained at the job loses in their countries because the US was moving its troops to Eastern Europe (Which still actually needs protection from Russia) Otherwise if the leaders of those big European countries want to be Putin's B*tches that is the business of their people. Until this year I have seen little that the people there disagree with their leaders.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by neverfail » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:20 pm

Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 am
The original objective was to keep the soviet Union from over running a destroyed in WWII Europe Once the Soviet Union collapsed US troops should have been moved out out of Europe.
In your opinion Doc why were they not?
Interesting question. I think there were a group of people that did not want to lose power as a group. The US middle class has been paying taxes to defend Europe since 1945. I don"t hear many thanks yous for that. More like smug superiority of a con man that has taken a mark for all they are worth
Doc, reading that a memory-thought just occurred to me.

Half a century ago I lived for several months in New Zealand. I soon discovered that Kiwis had that kind of sense of smug superiority towards we Australians that I considered unjustified. I asked a New Zealander with whom I had struck up a friendly acquaintanceship with what was behind it. I have never forgotten his reply as it stunned me at the time.

"Don't take any notice of them (Nfl). They are green with envy." He then went on to describe his fellow Kiwis as "a very envious people" citing examples of how this showed up in corporate life.

I knew that Australian average real incomes and general living standards were better than those of NZ (they still are) but had not until then considered our good fortune to be anything special: certainly not any reason to look down upon the New Zealanders. Least of all had it ever occurred to me that people could be so consumed with envy as to resort to expressing lies. The smug superiority was nothing but a face-saving cover-up for a sense of failure and balm for affronted pride.

I would not be the least surprised were that smug superiority towards the USA you detect in Europeans to be prompted by exactly the same envy as that "attitude" I ran into in New Zealand half a century ago. The USA has the power to do things in the world that Europe has not the means to do: and of course Europeans hate having to play second fiddle to anyone.

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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Doc » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:22 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:20 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 am
The original objective was to keep the soviet Union from over running a destroyed in WWII Europe Once the Soviet Union collapsed US troops should have been moved out out of Europe.
In your opinion Doc why were they not?
Interesting question. I think there were a group of people that did not want to lose power as a group. The US middle class has been paying taxes to defend Europe since 1945. I don"t hear many thanks yous for that. More like smug superiority of a con man that has taken a mark for all they are worth
Doc, reading that a memory-thought just occurred to me.

Half a century ago I lived for several months in New Zealand. I soon discovered that Kiwis had that kind of sense of smug superiority towards we Australians that I considered unjustified. I asked a New Zealander with whom I had struck up a friendly acquaintanceship with what was behind it. I have never forgotten his reply as it stunned me at the time.

"Don't take any notice of them (Nfl). They are green with envy." He then went on to describe his fellow Kiwis as "a very envious people" citing examples of how this showed up in corporate life.

I knew that Australian average real incomes and general living standards were better than those of NZ (they still are) but had not until then considered our good fortune to be anything special: certainly not any reason to look down upon the New Zealanders. Least of all had it ever occurred to me that people could be so consumed with envy as to resort to expressing lies. The smug superiority was nothing but a face-saving cover-up for a sense of failure and balm for affronted pride.

I would not be the least surprised were that smug superiority towards the USA you detect in Europeans to be prompted by exactly the same envy as that "attitude" I ran into in New Zealand half a century ago. The USA has the power to do things in the world that Europe has not the means to do: and of course Europeans hate having to play second fiddle to anyone.
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They once ruled most of the world between themselves.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Sertorio
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Sertorio » Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:47 am

Doc wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:22 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:20 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 am
The original objective was to keep the soviet Union from over running a destroyed in WWII Europe Once the Soviet Union collapsed US troops should have been moved out out of Europe.
In your opinion Doc why were they not?
Interesting question. I think there were a group of people that did not want to lose power as a group. The US middle class has been paying taxes to defend Europe since 1945. I don"t hear many thanks yous for that. More like smug superiority of a con man that has taken a mark for all they are worth
Doc, reading that a memory-thought just occurred to me.

Half a century ago I lived for several months in New Zealand. I soon discovered that Kiwis had that kind of sense of smug superiority towards we Australians that I considered unjustified. I asked a New Zealander with whom I had struck up a friendly acquaintanceship with what was behind it. I have never forgotten his reply as it stunned me at the time.

"Don't take any notice of them (Nfl). They are green with envy." He then went on to describe his fellow Kiwis as "a very envious people" citing examples of how this showed up in corporate life.

I knew that Australian average real incomes and general living standards were better than those of NZ (they still are) but had not until then considered our good fortune to be anything special: certainly not any reason to look down upon the New Zealanders. Least of all had it ever occurred to me that people could be so consumed with envy as to resort to expressing lies. The smug superiority was nothing but a face-saving cover-up for a sense of failure and balm for affronted pride.

I would not be the least surprised were that smug superiority towards the USA you detect in Europeans to be prompted by exactly the same envy as that "attitude" I ran into in New Zealand half a century ago. The USA has the power to do things in the world that Europe has not the means to do: and of course Europeans hate having to play second fiddle to anyone.
They once ruled most of the world between themselves.
I assure you that, contrarily to Americans, the last thing Europeans want is to rule the world. We do not envy Americans, we are horrified at the sight of a religious deranged people who feel God has given them the mission of saving the world. And to do that everything is allowed, including the systematic torturing and killing of innocent people. What is surprising is seeing how the many sane Americans who we know are there are completely powerless to control their insane rulers. A true revolution might help solving that, but I don't see it happening in the US.

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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Doc » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:21 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sat Oct 09, 2021 1:47 am
Doc wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:22 pm
neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:20 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:43 pm
neverfail wrote:
Doc wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:40 am
The original objective was to keep the soviet Union from over running a destroyed in WWII Europe Once the Soviet Union collapsed US troops should have been moved out out of Europe.
In your opinion Doc why were they not?
Interesting question. I think there were a group of people that did not want to lose power as a group. The US middle class has been paying taxes to defend Europe since 1945. I don"t hear many thanks yous for that. More like smug superiority of a con man that has taken a mark for all they are worth
Doc, reading that a memory-thought just occurred to me.

Half a century ago I lived for several months in New Zealand. I soon discovered that Kiwis had that kind of sense of smug superiority towards we Australians that I considered unjustified. I asked a New Zealander with whom I had struck up a friendly acquaintanceship with what was behind it. I have never forgotten his reply as it stunned me at the time.

"Don't take any notice of them (Nfl). They are green with envy." He then went on to describe his fellow Kiwis as "a very envious people" citing examples of how this showed up in corporate life.

I knew that Australian average real incomes and general living standards were better than those of NZ (they still are) but had not until then considered our good fortune to be anything special: certainly not any reason to look down upon the New Zealanders. Least of all had it ever occurred to me that people could be so consumed with envy as to resort to expressing lies. The smug superiority was nothing but a face-saving cover-up for a sense of failure and balm for affronted pride.

I would not be the least surprised were that smug superiority towards the USA you detect in Europeans to be prompted by exactly the same envy as that "attitude" I ran into in New Zealand half a century ago. The USA has the power to do things in the world that Europe has not the means to do: and of course Europeans hate having to play second fiddle to anyone.
They once ruled most of the world between themselves.
I assure you that, contrarily to Americans, the last thing Europeans want is to rule the world. We do not envy Americans, we are horrified at the sight of a religious deranged people who feel God has given them the mission of saving the world. And to do that everything is allowed, including the systematic torturing and killing of innocent people. What is surprising is seeing how the many sane Americans who we know are there are completely powerless to control their insane rulers. A true revolution might help solving that, but I don't see it happening in the US.
Probably not. But at least, unlike Europe, we still have the right

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by SteveFoerster » Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:58 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:20 pm
I would not be the least surprised were that smug superiority towards the USA you detect in Europeans to be prompted by exactly the same envy as that "attitude" I ran into in New Zealand half a century ago. The USA has the power to do things in the world that Europe has not the means to do: and of course Europeans hate having to play second fiddle to anyone.
Similarly, I've often suspected that insecurity is the reason that Canadian exceptionalism seems based mostly on specious comparisons with the U.S. and exaggerating what few differences there are between the two. Which is weird to me, because I find that Canada is actually perfectly great on its own without the need for comparison.
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President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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