Why America failed in Afghanistan

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cassowary
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by cassowary » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:36 am

Sertorio wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:51 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:16 am
cassowary wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:00 am
The American blind spot

The sooner Americans clear away their blind spot caused by political correctness, the better.
Since Western culture predates Christianity, it seems that the former influenced the latter at least as much as the other way around. The article's thesis also discounts the many contributions to Western culture from Jews and Muslims, especially the Muslim world's role in preserving so many works from antiquity when the West was in disarray.
Religion is the problem. Because it is systematically used to control people and make them dependent on the clergy - the guys who can make sure you go to a fake paradise instead of to a fake hell. Contrarily to what Cass may think, this isn't a Marxist invention. Greek philosophers of the Hellenistic period already said it, 2,300 years ago. Judaism, Christendom and Islam are just the most important users of manipulation and brain washing, in order to have people give to their clergy what they want, namely money and power. Iranians and Americans are the greatest victims of religious manipulation, and that's why they can't get along with each other...
It sound like the Marxist religion. You had the clergy - the party faithful who served as commissars in the USSR and stils have in China. People like Fatty Kim use the Marxist faith to get rich and have a large harem for him to play with. The greatest victims are the people in Cuba, North Korea, China and Cambodia under Pol Pot.
The Imp :D

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:41 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:20 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:25 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Might I be so bold as to remind my readers of the original reason why US forces were sent into Afghanistan in the first place:

They were sent in to get Osama bin Laden over the 9/11 Twin Towers terror attack.
It would have been a lot cheaper to let the Taliban send him to Qatar, as they originally offered. Oh well.
Just as it would have been cheaper for the Roosevelt administration to have ignored the 1941 bombing of Pearl Harbour as i9nconsequential and allowed Imperial Japan to continue the invasion of China just as they wanted to (along with the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union) unimpeded. But neither Roosevelt nor Bush "turned the other cheek" . to do so would have denied both themselves and the US public the satisfaction of veangence on the aggressor.
Agreeing to Bin Laden being sent to a country where his extraction would have been relatively easy would hardly have been "turning the other cheek"; on the contrary it would have led to his facing justice years earlier than actually happened, without throwing trillions of dollars away on a fool's errand.
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
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Doc
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Doc » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:43 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:25 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Might I be so bold as to remind my readers of the original reason why US forces were sent into Afghanistan in the first place:

They were sent in to get Osama bin Laden over the 9/11 Twin Towers terror attack.
It would have been a lot cheaper to let the Taliban send him to Qatar, as they originally offered. Oh well.
The Taliban never acknowledged that Bin Laden admitted he was behind 911. They apparently still don't
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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SteveFoerster
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:28 am

Doc wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:43 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:25 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Might I be so bold as to remind my readers of the original reason why US forces were sent into Afghanistan in the first place:

They were sent in to get Osama bin Laden over the 9/11 Twin Towers terror attack.
It would have been a lot cheaper to let the Taliban send him to Qatar, as they originally offered. Oh well.
The Taliban never acknowledged that Bin Laden admitted he was behind 911. They apparently still don't
They were willing to hand him over to Qatar. If that included them saving face by lying about his culpability, so what?
Writer, technologist, educator, gadfly.
President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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Doc
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Doc » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:27 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:28 am
Doc wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:43 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:25 pm
neverfail wrote:
Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:12 pm
Might I be so bold as to remind my readers of the original reason why US forces were sent into Afghanistan in the first place:

They were sent in to get Osama bin Laden over the 9/11 Twin Towers terror attack.
It would have been a lot cheaper to let the Taliban send him to Qatar, as they originally offered. Oh well.
The Taliban never acknowledged that Bin Laden admitted he was behind 911. They apparently still don't
They were willing to hand him over to Qatar. If that included them saving face by lying about his culpability, so what?
Qatar backed Al Qaeda in Syria...
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by neverfail » Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:35 pm

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:41 am

Agreeing to Bin Laden being sent to a country where his extraction would have been relatively easy would hardly have been "turning the other cheek"; on the contrary it would have led to his facing justice years earlier than actually happened, without throwing trillions of dollars away on a fool's errand.
I would have thought that Qatar would have been a difficult place to get the bastard extradited from.

( :o By the way: are you suggesting that the trioka of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were a pack of fools? :) )

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Doc
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by Doc » Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:47 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:41 am

Agreeing to Bin Laden being sent to a country where his extraction would have been relatively easy would hardly have been "turning the other cheek"; on the contrary it would have led to his facing justice years earlier than actually happened, without throwing trillions of dollars away on a fool's errand.
I would have thought that Qatar would have been a difficult place to get the bastard extradited from.

( :o By the way: are you suggesting that the trioka of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were a pack of fools? :) )
Actually now that you mention it Qatar has no extradition treaty with the US so the chances of extraditing Bin Laden from there would have been zero
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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cassowary
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by cassowary » Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:28 pm

neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:41 am

Agreeing to Bin Laden being sent to a country where his extraction would have been relatively easy would hardly have been "turning the other cheek"; on the contrary it would have led to his facing justice years earlier than actually happened, without throwing trillions of dollars away on a fool's errand.
I would have thought that Qatar would have been a difficult place to get the bastard extradited from.

( :o By the way: are you suggesting that the trioka of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were a pack of fools? :) )
No, they were not. They did the right thing at that time. Withdrawing from Afghanistan was not their decision and how that was done was not their execution.

If I were Biden, I would put in residual troops in Pansjir valley with a great airport able to land big transport planes to retain the ability to easily return.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by neverfail » Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:53 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:41 am

Agreeing to Bin Laden being sent to a country where his extraction would have been relatively easy would hardly have been "turning the other cheek"; on the contrary it would have led to his facing justice years earlier than actually happened, without throwing trillions of dollars away on a fool's errand.
I would have thought that Qatar would have been a difficult place to get the bastard extradited from.

( :o By the way: are you suggesting that the trioka of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were a pack of fools? :) )
No, they were not. They did the right thing at that time. Withdrawing from Afghanistan was not their decision and how that was done was not their execution.
I directed that question to Steve Foerster and am awaiting his response.
cassowary wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:28 pm
If I were Biden, I would put in residual troops in Pansjir valley with a great airport able to land big transport planes to retain the ability to easily return.
Have you taken a look at photos of the Panjshir Valley Cass? No way you could install a "great airport" in the midst of that rugged terrain.

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/panjshir-valley

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cassowary
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Re: Why America failed in Afghanistan

Post by cassowary » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:01 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:53 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:28 pm
neverfail wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:35 pm
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:41 am

Agreeing to Bin Laden being sent to a country where his extraction would have been relatively easy would hardly have been "turning the other cheek"; on the contrary it would have led to his facing justice years earlier than actually happened, without throwing trillions of dollars away on a fool's errand.
I would have thought that Qatar would have been a difficult place to get the bastard extradited from.

( :o By the way: are you suggesting that the trioka of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were a pack of fools? :) )
No, they were not. They did the right thing at that time. Withdrawing from Afghanistan was not their decision and how that was done was not their execution.
I directed that question to Steve Foerster and am awaiting his response.
cassowary wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:28 pm
If I were Biden, I would put in residual troops in Pansjir valley with a great airport able to land big transport planes to retain the ability to easily return.
Have you taken a look at photos of the Panjshir Valley Cass? No way you could install a "great airport" in the midst of that rugged terrain.

https://www.gettyimages.com.au/photos/panjshir-valley
I think you can. I see flat ground on the valley floor.
The Imp :D

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