The Singapore-Australia electric cable

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cassowary
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The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by cassowary » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:07 am

The Imp :D

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by SteveFoerster » Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:47 am

A 4000 Km extension cord? That's certainly ambitious!
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cassowary
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by cassowary » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:27 am

SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:47 am
A 4000 Km extension cord? That's certainly ambitious!
Trying to be green. I don’t like it because it will drive up the electricity cost.
The Imp :D

neverfail
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by neverfail » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:23 pm

cassowary wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:27 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:47 am
A 4000 Km extension cord? That's certainly ambitious!
Trying to be green. I don’t like it because it will drive up the electricity cost.
How do you know?

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cassowary
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by cassowary » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:10 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:23 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:27 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:47 am
A 4000 Km extension cord? That's certainly ambitious!
Trying to be green. I don’t like it because it will drive up the electricity cost.
How do you know?
Common sense. Sending energy so far away is bound to incur loss of energy.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by cassowary » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:13 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:10 am
neverfail wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:23 pm
cassowary wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:27 am
SteveFoerster wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:47 am
A 4000 Km extension cord? That's certainly ambitious!
Trying to be green. I don’t like it because it will drive up the electricity cost.
How do you know?
Common sense. Sending energy so far away is bound to incur loss of energy.
Energy lessons from Europe about green energy
Energy prices are soaring in Europe, and the effects are rippling across the Atlantic. Blame anti-carbon policies of the kind that the Biden Administration wants to impose in the U.S.

Electricity prices in the U.K. this week jumped to a record £354 ($490) per megawatt hour, a 700% increase from the 2010 to 2020 average. Germany’s electricity benchmark has doubled this year. Last month’s 12.3% increase was the largest since 1974 and contributed to the highest inflation reading since 1993. Other economies are experiencing similar spikes.

Europe’s anti-carbon policies have created a fossil-fuel shortage. Governments have heavily subsidized renewables like wind and solar and shut down coal plants to meet their commitments under the Paris climate accord. But wind power this summer has flagged, so countries are scrambling to import more fossil fuels to power their grids.

European natural-gas spot prices have increased five-fold in the last year. Some energy providers are burning cheaper coal, but its prices have tripled. Rising fossil-fuel consumption has caused demand and prices for carbon permits under the Continent’s cap-and-trade scheme to surge, which has pushed electricity prices even higher.

Russia has exploited the chaos by slowing gas deliveries, ostensibly to increase pressure on Germany to finish the Nord Stream 2 pipeline certification. Vladimir Putin last week took a swipe at the “smart alecs” in the European Commission for “market-based” pricing that increased competition in gas, including from U.S. liquefied natural gas imports.

Mr. Putin can throw his weight around in Europe because the rest of the world also needs his gas. Drought has reduced hydropower in Asia, and manufacturers are using more energy to supply the West with more goods. Due to a gas and coal shortage, China has rationed power to its aluminum smelters and aluminum prices this week hit a 13-year high.

The U.S. is the world’s largest gas producer, but it isn’t immune from turmoil in energy markets. Natural gas spot prices in the U.S. have doubled over the past year in part because producers have increased exports to Europe and Asia. Exports are up more than 40% during the first six months this year over last.

This underscores how fossil fuels are a U.S. economic and strategic asset. The Biden Administration’s plan to curtail oil, gas and coal production by regulation would empower adversaries. especially Russia, Iran and China, which are the world’s three largest gas producers after the U.S.

Americans are already feeling the pain of rising energy prices. Electricity and utility gas prices were up 5.2% and 21.1%, respectively, over the last 12 months in August. Higher energy costs are bleeding into inflation. Some analysts predict that gas prices could double this winter if U.S. production doesn’t increase and global demand remains high.

Europe is showing the folly of trying to purge CO2 from the economy. No matter how heavily subsidized, renewables can’t replace fossil fuels in a modern economy. Households and businesses get stuck with higher energy bills even as CO2 emissions increase. Europe’s problems are a warning to the U.S., if only Democrats would heed it.
See? Stories like this make me sceptical of green energy. But I suppose we must do our part to protect the world.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 7291
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by neverfail » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm

cassowary wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:13 am
Common sense. Sending energy so far away is bound to incur loss of energy.
Energy lessons from Europe about green energy
Energy prices are soaring in Europe, and the effects are rippling across the Atlantic. Blame anti-carbon policies of the kind that the Biden Administration wants to impose in the U.S.

Electricity prices in the U.K. this week jumped to a record £354 ($490) per megawatt hour, a 700% increase from the 2010 to 2020 average. Germany’s electricity benchmark has doubled this year. Last month’s 12.3% increase was the largest since 1974 and contributed to the highest inflation reading since 1993. Other economies are experiencing similar spikes.

Europe’s anti-carbon policies have created a fossil-fuel shortage. Governments have heavily subsidized renewables like wind and solar and shut down coal plants to meet their commitments under the Paris climate accord. But wind power this summer has flagged, so countries are scrambling to import more fossil fuels to power their grids.

European natural-gas spot prices have increased five-fold in the last year. Some energy providers are burning cheaper coal, but its prices have tripled. Rising fossil-fuel consumption has caused demand and prices for carbon permits under the Continent’s cap-and-trade scheme to surge, which has pushed electricity prices even higher.

Russia has exploited the chaos by slowing gas deliveries, ostensibly to increase pressure on Germany to finish the Nord Stream 2 pipeline certification. Vladimir Putin last week took a swipe at the “smart alecs” in the European Commission for “market-based” pricing that increased competition in gas, including from U.S. liquefied natural gas imports.

Mr. Putin can throw his weight around in Europe because the rest of the world also needs his gas. Drought has reduced hydropower in Asia, and manufacturers are using more energy to supply the West with more goods. Due to a gas and coal shortage, China has rationed power to its aluminum smelters and aluminum prices this week hit a 13-year high.

The U.S. is the world’s largest gas producer, but it isn’t immune from turmoil in energy markets. Natural gas spot prices in the U.S. have doubled over the past year in part because producers have increased exports to Europe and Asia. Exports are up more than 40% during the first six months this year over last.

This underscores how fossil fuels are a U.S. economic and strategic asset. The Biden Administration’s plan to curtail oil, gas and coal production by regulation would empower adversaries. especially Russia, Iran and China, which are the world’s three largest gas producers after the U.S.

Americans are already feeling the pain of rising energy prices. Electricity and utility gas prices were up 5.2% and 21.1%, respectively, over the last 12 months in August. Higher energy costs are bleeding into inflation. Some analysts predict that gas prices could double this winter if U.S. production doesn’t increase and global demand remains high.

Europe is showing the folly of trying to purge CO2 from the economy. No matter how heavily subsidized, renewables can’t replace fossil fuels in a modern economy. Households and businesses get stuck with higher energy bills even as CO2 emissions increase. Europe’s problems are a warning to the U.S., if only Democrats would heed it.
See? Stories like this make me sceptical of green energy. But I suppose we must do our part to protect the world.
CASSOWARY: there is no plan for Singapore to import electrical energy from bloody Europe, for God's sake! The proposal is for Singapore to import the stuff from Australia where we have had a totally different cost-benefit experience re. renewables:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ns-by-2040

Australia installed about seven gigawatts of renewable energy in 2020, continuing a trend in which new clean energy generation roughly equivalent to that produced by a large coal-fired plant is added each year.
There is no shortage of fossil fuel out here to generate electrical power from. We mine the cheapest thermal coal (high quality coal at that) in the world which is why Australia is the World's biggest seaborne exporter of coal. We are coincidentally the world's biggest supplier of seaborne liquified natural gas (LNG).

As you can probably see by now in terms of supply there is absolutely no reason why Australia cannot continue to generate it's electric power supply from carbon fuels. Yet despite that ageing thermal power plant is being closed down and is being replaced by renewables: solar panels, wind turbines and pumped hydro. Why?

It is definitely not because of government policy "compelling" change with (say) taxes of fossil fuel production and tax concessions for investment in renewables: out here state subsidies run in the opposite direction (advocates of renewables out here complain bitterly about that) . The ongoing surge in renewables out here is happening DESPITE official government policy, not because of it.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -is-coming

Outcry at Australia's coal plant closures misses the point: change is coming

Trying to heavy owners won’t hold back the renewables tide.

With so much solar energy being generated in the middle of the day, wholesale electricity prices in Victoria have dropped 70% over the past year. This has been good for consumers and the climate, but bad for coal plant owners, who are struggling to stay viable.
...........................................................................................................................................

Presently (I am informed) Singapore generates its electrical energy using natural gas imported via undersea pipeline from Indinesian waters. If authorities in both Singapore and Australia are seriously interested in in multi-billionaire businessman "Twiggy" Forrest's proposal to supply solar electric power to Singapore via undersea cable (bearing in mind that Forrest will invest his own risk capital in the project) then the likely reason is because they have worked out that it is a better (dollars and cents) deal for Singapore and its electric power consumers.

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cassowary
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by cassowary » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:56 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:31 pm

CASSOWARY: there is no plan for Singapore to import electrical energy from bloody Europe, for God's sake! The proposal is for Singapore to import the stuff from Australia where we have had a totally different cost-benefit experience re. renewables:
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ns-by-2040

Australia installed about seven gigawatts of renewable energy in 2020, continuing a trend in which new clean energy generation roughly equivalent to that produced by a large coal-fired plant is added each year.
There is no shortage of fossil fuel out here to generate electrical power from. We mine the cheapest thermal coal (high quality coal at that) in the world which is why Australia is the World's biggest seaborne exporter of coal. We are coincidentally the world's biggest supplier of seaborne liquified natural gas (LNG).

As you can probably see by now in terms of supply there is absolutely no reason why Australia cannot continue to generate it's electric power supply from carbon fuels. Yet despite that ageing thermal power plant is being closed down and is being replaced by renewables: solar panels, wind turbines and pumped hydro. Why?

It is definitely not because of government policy "compelling" change with (say) taxes of fossil fuel production and tax concessions for investment in renewables: out here state subsidies run in the opposite direction (advocates of renewables out here complain bitterly about that) . The ongoing surge in renewables out here is happening DESPITE official government policy, not because of it.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... -is-coming

Outcry at Australia's coal plant closures misses the point: change is coming

Trying to heavy owners won’t hold back the renewables tide.

With so much solar energy being generated in the middle of the day, wholesale electricity prices in Victoria have dropped 70% over the past year. This has been good for consumers and the climate, but bad for coal plant owners, who are struggling to stay viable.
Hmm. I didn't realise Australian solar power is so cheap. Australia is truly a lucky country. This is not true in most countries of the world where governments have to subsidise green energy to get it to work and tbus make it more expensive as the WSJ article is saying.

In that case, the project just might be feasible despite the 4,000 km distance. They estimate that the loss of energy is only 10%.
...........................................................................................................................................
Presently (I am informed) Singapore generates its electrical energy using natural gas imported via undersea pipeline from Indinesian waters. If authorities in both Singapore and Australia are seriously interested in in multi-billionaire businessman "Twiggy" Forrest's proposal to supply solar electric power to Singapore via undersea cable (bearing in mind that Forrest will invest his own risk capital in the project) then the likely reason is because they have worked out that it is a better (dollars and cents) deal for Singapore and its electric power consumers.
I also hope so. I don't want to see a loss of economic competitiveness if energy costs go up.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 7291
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Location: Singapore

Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by neverfail » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:01 am

cassowary wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:56 pm

Hmm. I didn't realise Australian solar power is so cheap. Australia is truly a lucky country. This is not true in most countries of the world where governments have to subsidise green energy to get it to work and tbus make it more expensive as the WSJ article is saying.
Just as well too Cass. policy screw-ups in the recent past hasmade other forms of energy more costly to consumers so this is welcome relief.
In that case, the project just might be feasible despite the 4,000 km distance. They estimate that the loss of energy is only 10%.
That's a piece of info I had previously not had so thanks Cass.
...........................................................................................................................................
Presently (I am informed) Singapore generates its electrical energy using natural gas imported via undersea pipeline from Indinesian waters. If authorities in both Singapore and Australia are seriously interested in in multi-billionaire businessman "Twiggy" Forrest's proposal to supply solar electric power to Singapore via undersea cable (bearing in mind that Forrest will invest his own risk capital in the project) then the likely reason is because they have worked out that it is a better (dollars and cents) deal for Singapore and its electric power consumers.
I also hope so. I don't want to see a loss of economic competitiveness if energy costs go up.
So would the Singapore government. So if they grant permission for the project to go ahead you can be certain that they have assessed it as a good energy deal for Singapore. It would be a "win-win" for both countries.

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SteveFoerster
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Re: The Singapore-Australia electric cable

Post by SteveFoerster » Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:01 am
So would the Singapore government. So if they grant permission for the project to go ahead you can be certain that they have assessed it as a good energy deal for Singapore. It would be a "win-win" for both countries.
Especially if it means they need not build seawalls quite as high in the coming decades.
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President of New World University: https://newworld.ac

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