Why did the US failed in nation building in Afghanistan but succeeded in Japan?

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neverfail
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Re: Why did the US failed in nation building in Afghanistan but succeeded in Japan?

Post by neverfail » Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:44 pm

Milo wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:41 pm
Perhaps we ask the wrong question here. After all, Japan was a major power with professional institutions long before the US occupation. How much building was necessary?

Afghanistan has not been a major power, ever. In fact its normal state seems to be a collection of, at best, satrapies, who have no vision of belonging to something bigger. Brute force and baksheesh unite it only for as long as they are applied, no other mechanisms seem to work, and, unlike Saudi Arabia, it’s not worth it to continually apply brute force and baksheesh.

Perhaps we are in a Yugoslavia situation: an artificial country that nobody wants to exist, except foreign service bureaucrats, and it’s better to just let the idea of Afghanistan go.
That's exactly right Milo. There was a nation well established there long before the Americans arrived but none in Afghanistan.

I sometimes wonder about the hubris, the combination of ignorence and arrogance, that moved US administrations to view all foreign nations abroad as blank pages on which the USA could indiscriminately write whatever script it chose to?

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Doc
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Re: Why did the US failed in nation building in Afghanistan but succeeded in Japan?

Post by Doc » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:48 pm

neverfail wrote:
Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:44 pm
Milo wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:41 pm
Perhaps we ask the wrong question here. After all, Japan was a major power with professional institutions long before the US occupation. How much building was necessary?

Afghanistan has not been a major power, ever. In fact its normal state seems to be a collection of, at best, satrapies, who have no vision of belonging to something bigger. Brute force and baksheesh unite it only for as long as they are applied, no other mechanisms seem to work, and, unlike Saudi Arabia, it’s not worth it to continually apply brute force and baksheesh.

Perhaps we are in a Yugoslavia situation: an artificial country that nobody wants to exist, except foreign service bureaucrats, and it’s better to just let the idea of Afghanistan go.
That's exactly right Milo. There was a nation well established there long before the Americans arrived but none in Afghanistan.

I sometimes wonder about the hubris, the combination of ignorence and arrogance, that moved US administrations to view all foreign nations abroad as blank pages on which the USA could indiscriminately write whatever script it chose to?
The Taliban sued for peace in 2003 or 2004. They were rebuffed. Mostly because it was felt by the DC establishment that they were not diverse enough. I remember Hillary demanding that girls have American style rights. Afghanistan is a country without food security. Any place without food security is a man's world. No one in DC seems to understand that.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

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