Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Discussion of current events
Post Reply
User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5956
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by Doc » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:55 am

“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 7293
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by neverfail » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:58 pm

A very right wing, tub thumping kind of u-tube video Doc. But thanks anyhow!

I disagree with the claim that Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy. The reason is simply that it still officially recognises the PRC.

The USA has conducted a rather two faced policy with China over Taiwan ever since it entered into diplomatic relations with the former in 1979. While officially recognising Taiwan as "part of China" (every country that wishes to enter into diplomatic relations with the PRC has to publically avow that) the USA has continued to treat Taiwan as a protectorite - as if it were a soverign state and ally.

This brings us to Japan; which first entered into diplomatic relations with the PRC in September 1972 - not long before Australia and seven years ahead of the USA. Like Australia Japan has reaped considerable economic benefits ever since diplomatic ties were first established and these likewise it would likely be loath to give up.

This raises the question: what can (or will) Japan do for Taiwan anyhow? No foreign country can similtaneously recognise both the PRC and Taiwan - PRC rules will not permit it. It must be either one or the other. So would Japan drop its diplomatic ties with the PRC for the sake of restoring them with Taiwan? It has not so far made any move to do so.

Until it does I will not believe that "Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy"

Quite apart from the risk of jeopardising its trade advantages with the PRC; Japan, unlike China non-nuclear armed, could obviously not possibly win a war with the PRC. Not by itself anyway.

That puts the ball in America's court. How far would the USA be prepared to go in order to clear up what has always been a very murky relationship?

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5956
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by Doc » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:02 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:58 pm
A very right wing, tub thumping kind of u-tube video Doc. But thanks anyhow!

I disagree with the claim that Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy. The reason is simply that it still officially recognises the PRC.

The USA has conducted a rather two faced policy with China over Taiwan ever since it entered into diplomatic relations with the former in 1979. While officially recognising Taiwan as "part of China" (every country that wishes to enter into diplomatic relations with the PRC has to publically avow that) the USA has continued to treat Taiwan as a protectorite - as if it were a soverign state and ally.

This brings us to Japan; which first entered into diplomatic relations with the PRC in September 1972 - not long before Australia and seven years ahead of the USA. Like Australia Japan has reaped considerable economic benefits ever since diplomatic ties were first established and these likewise it would likely be loath to give up.

This raises the question: what can (or will) Japan do for Taiwan anyhow? No foreign country can similtaneously recognise both the PRC and Taiwan - PRC rules will not permit it. It must be either one or the other. So would Japan drop its diplomatic ties with the PRC for the sake of restoring them with Taiwan? It has not so far made any move to do so.

Until it does I will not believe that "Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy"

Quite apart from the risk of jeopardising its trade advantages with the PRC; Japan, unlike China non-nuclear armed, could obviously not possibly win a war with the PRC. Not by itself anyway.

That puts the ball in America's court. How far would the USA be prepared to go in order to clear up what has always been a very murky relationship?
The US has consistently had one condition on the One China policy. The same it had WRT to Hong Kong. That negotiation should be used to integrate them into China. THe CCP said it could live with that Then it broke its agreement with the British over Hong Kong.

Screw the CCP's "Rules" Their word is worthless. There are no rules.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 7293
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by neverfail » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:19 pm

Doc wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:02 am


The US has consistently had one condition on the One China policy. The same it had WRT to Hong Kong. That negotiation should be used to integrate them into China. THe CCP said it could live with that Then it broke its agreement with the British over Hong Kong.

Screw the CCP's "Rules" Their word is worthless. There are no rules.
How can you be certain that this is not an excuse provided by US policy rather than a valid reason?

My above question remains unanswered. How far would the US go to defend Taiwan if militarily invaded by the PLA? Is Taiwan really all that important in the overall US scheme of things?

Japan, though it might have shifted its position on the matter recently obviously cannot do anything in defending Taiwan without the backing of the US.

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5956
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by Doc » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:17 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:19 pm
Doc wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:02 am


The US has consistently had one condition on the One China policy. The same it had WRT to Hong Kong. That negotiation should be used to integrate them into China. THe CCP said it could live with that Then it broke its agreement with the British over Hong Kong.

Screw the CCP's "Rules" Their word is worthless. There are no rules.
How can you be certain that this is not an excuse provided by US policy rather than a valid reason?
I have as of today over 4,172,559

https://srv1.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Coronavirus Cases:
194,670,772
view by country
Deaths:
4,172,559
My above question remains unanswered. How far would the US go to defend Taiwan if militarily invaded by the PLA? Is Taiwan really all that important in the overall US scheme of things?

Japan, though it might have shifted its position on the matter recently obviously cannot do anything in defending Taiwan without the backing of the US.
With Biden in charge? Who knows? His administration just decided not to prosecute 6 CCP spys. Though it is very clear what the Chinese Criminal Party will do:
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 7293
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by neverfail » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:16 pm

Doc wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:17 pm
With Biden in charge? Who knows?
Alas, Doc: you seem to presume that a US president (including JB) is free to pursue whatever policies he wants to; but in practice it is often not so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Amer ... nse_Treaty

The Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty (中美共同防禦條約), formally Mutual Defense Treaty between the United States of America and the Republic of China (中華民國與美利堅合眾國間共同防禦條約), was a defense pact between the United States of America and the Republic of China effective from 1955 to 1980. It essentially prevented the People's Republic of China from taking over the island of Taiwan. Some of its content was carried over to the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979.
That one lapsed in 1980 as it was designed to do but following American recognition of the PRC in 1979 yet it seems that Taiwan still had enough friends in your Houses of Congress to have this bill passed in Taiwan's favour:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act
The Taiwan Relations Act (TRA; Pub.L. 96–8, 93 Stat. 14, enacted April 10, 1979; H.R. 2479) is an act of the United States Congress. Since the recognition of the People's Republic of China, the Act has defined the officially substantial but non-diplomatic relations between the people of the United States and the people of Taiwan.

(provisions): The Taiwan Relations Act does not guarantee the U.S. will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress.
This bill is less generous towards Taiwan than the Mutual Defence treaty that it superceded but ( despite the slippery wording that seems to let the US of the hook if it does not want to go to war) is still enough to inform me that if Biden or any other US president were not to credably act in the defence of a beleaguered Taiwan he could find himself subject to impeachment.

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5956
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by Doc » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:44 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:16 pm
Doc wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:17 pm
With Biden in charge? Who knows?
Alas, Doc: you seem to presume that a US president (including JB) is free to pursue whatever policies he wants to; but in practice it is often not so.
You mean there will never be peace between the Israelis and Arabs in the ME? :shock:

[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Amer ... nse_Treaty

The Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty (中美共同防禦條約), formally Mutual Defense Treaty between the United States of America and the Republic of China (中華民國與美利堅合眾國間共同防禦條約), was a defense pact between the United States of America and the Republic of China effective from 1955 to 1980. It essentially prevented the People's Republic of China from taking over the island of Taiwan. Some of its content was carried over to the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979.
[/quote]

The CCP did not have the means to take Taiwan until recently.

That one lapsed in 1980 as it was designed to do but following American recognition of the PRC in 1979 yet it seems that Taiwan still had enough friends in your Houses of Congress to have this bill passed in Taiwan's favour:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act
The Taiwan Relations Act (TRA; Pub.L. 96–8, 93 Stat. 14, enacted April 10, 1979; H.R. 2479) is an act of the United States Congress. Since the recognition of the People's Republic of China, the Act has defined the officially substantial but non-diplomatic relations between the people of the United States and the people of Taiwan.

(provisions): The Taiwan Relations Act does not guarantee the U.S. will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress.
This bill is less generous towards Taiwan than the Mutual Defence treaty that it superceded but ( despite the slippery wording that seems to let the US of the hook if it does not want to go to war) is still enough to inform me that if Biden or any other US president were not to credably act in the defence of a beleaguered Taiwan he could find himself subject to impeachment.
Pretty much all treaties let the signatories off the hook if it turns out the treaty is against their national interests. Even the NATO Treaty.

SO do you suppose it is in US and Japan's interest that the CCP not seize Taiwan?
TMSC.jpg
TMSC.jpg (84.21 KiB) Viewed 186 times
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 7293
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by neverfail » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:04 am

But the USA still makes semiconductors, does it not Doc?

Well, if Taiwan's output were removed from the scene would that not creatre the opportunity for your country (and others) to massively expand their output?

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5956
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: Japan has officially dumped the One China Policy

Post by Doc » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 am

neverfail wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:04 am
But the USA still makes semiconductors, does it not Doc?

Well, if Taiwan's output were removed from the scene would that not creatre the opportunity for your country (and others) to massively expand their output?
Not enough of them. There is already a massive shortage of the most advanced Semoconductors. Car manufactures are so desperate can't produce car right now because they canceled their orders last year not expecting the demand to come back anytime soon. Now that demand has come back they can't build vehicles for lack of them. Orders on large scale take at least a year to fulfill. If the CCP attacks Taiwan those orders will take years to fulfill.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

Post Reply