Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Discussion of current events
neverfail
Posts: 6991
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by neverfail » Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:59 pm

cassowary wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:56 am


Let's see if we have any data on the remaining primitive people in the world. Even during the 1970s in Brazil, the primitive people of the Amazon have a short life span because many people don't even make it to adulthood.
Thanks again Cass. Above post triggered my memory.

Even among those who survived the rigors of childhood and grew up into reasonably healthy adults life was short. Certainly for indigenous Australians.

Since the 1980's when Australian parliaments passed laws protective of Aboriginal grave sites; if archologists wish to excavate the buried remains for scientific examination they now have to seek -permission from the land council representing the particular Aboriginal band whose traditional range the grave site is located. But before those laws were passed interested archologists had literally an open slather - as a consequence of which literally thoudands of Aboriginal skeletons and part skeletons ended up in university archology department and museum storage archieves worldwide. Despite the desecration it was in a way fortunate that so many were thus distributed because it permitted a survey that revealed an important item of information that otherwise would still not be known.

By examining those Aboriginal remains they determined that the average life expectancy of an Australian aboriginal pre-European contact was in the range of only 40 to 45 years.

Bear in mind that at the dawn of the 20th century the average life span of a typical white Australian was only about 50 years - and a typical white Australian of the time reputedly lived a healthier lifestyle and enjoyed more nourishing foods than his peers and counterparts in the British Isles and elsewhere in The West. That does not say much in favour of societies that had long outgrown the stone age and passed on through the World's first induatrial revolution, now does it?

The big gains in like expectancy, nutrition and overall living standards has come about only over the past 100 years.
So when modern Canadians look back to a more primitive time in their history, they are judging their ancestors by the prosperous standards of today. Add to it the politicians who want to get the votes of the Amerindians and Indian leaders who want to get money for past misdeeds.
Like our aboriginal rights activists these must be partial to a highly romantic, Bowdlerised vision of how it was for their ancestors back in those good old days before those white men came along with their civilisation and mucked up everything for us. I notice that even as they campaign for special priveleges with the argument approximating "we wuz robbed" they still do not reject the comforts and benefits that white Western civilisation has brought to them.

As for politicans seeking indigenous votes, no! In Canada as in Australia there would be so few of these compared to the mass coming from the general population they would likely not be worth going out of their way to solicit.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:21 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:23 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am

Trying to justify colonial methods doesn't make them any better. But it is surprising that in 2021 you still make the effort to try and excuse the brutality and lack of humanity of the settlers in respect of the people they came to oppress.
These days we don't - so you can get down off your judgementasl high horse now.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am
It doesn't even cross your mind that the natives could be happier living in their ancestral ways rather than adopting our aggressive posture, and that enough room (territory) should have been left them to continue living as they wished, for as long as they wished.
Oh come on, get real! If the British had not colonised Australia do you believe that other ambitious, energetic empire building nations of the time would not have moved in to the Australian power vacumn and done it in their place? One thing about which I am absolutely certain is that the Australian aboriginals and their accustomed way of life were both doomed.

History does not permit the maintenance of human, cultural and spiritual equivalent to Jurassic Park.
Which other ambitious, energetic empire building nation? Maybe the Aboriginal way of life had no future, but that wasn't your decision to take. But playing God is very much an Anglo thing, isn't it?...

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4968
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by cassowary » Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:18 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:21 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:23 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am

Trying to justify colonial methods doesn't make them any better. But it is surprising that in 2021 you still make the effort to try and excuse the brutality and lack of humanity of the settlers in respect of the people they came to oppress.
These days we don't - so you can get down off your judgementasl high horse now.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am
It doesn't even cross your mind that the natives could be happier living in their ancestral ways rather than adopting our aggressive posture, and that enough room (territory) should have been left them to continue living as they wished, for as long as they wished.
Oh come on, get real! If the British had not colonised Australia do you believe that other ambitious, energetic empire building nations of the time would not have moved in to the Australian power vacumn and done it in their place? One thing about which I am absolutely certain is that the Australian aboriginals and their accustomed way of life were both doomed.

History does not permit the maintenance of human, cultural and spiritual equivalent to Jurassic Park.
Which other ambitious, energetic empire building nation? Maybe the Aboriginal way of life had no future, but that wasn't your decision to take. But playing God is very much an Anglo thing, isn't it?...
Then why were you Portuguese in Angola? That includes you.

If the British were not there, maybe you Portuguese would have colonists Australia.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:06 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:18 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:21 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:23 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am

Trying to justify colonial methods doesn't make them any better. But it is surprising that in 2021 you still make the effort to try and excuse the brutality and lack of humanity of the settlers in respect of the people they came to oppress.
These days we don't - so you can get down off your judgementasl high horse now.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am
It doesn't even cross your mind that the natives could be happier living in their ancestral ways rather than adopting our aggressive posture, and that enough room (territory) should have been left them to continue living as they wished, for as long as they wished.
Oh come on, get real! If the British had not colonised Australia do you believe that other ambitious, energetic empire building nations of the time would not have moved in to the Australian power vacumn and done it in their place? One thing about which I am absolutely certain is that the Australian aboriginals and their accustomed way of life were both doomed.

History does not permit the maintenance of human, cultural and spiritual equivalent to Jurassic Park.
Which other ambitious, energetic empire building nation? Maybe the Aboriginal way of life had no future, but that wasn't your decision to take. But playing God is very much an Anglo thing, isn't it?...
Then why were you Portuguese in Angola? That includes you.

If the British were not there, maybe you Portuguese would have colonists Australia.
We came to Angola in the 15th century. Nothing to explain. And if we had colonized Australia, the Aborigines would be happier and in greater numbers...

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4968
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by cassowary » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:35 am

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:06 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:18 am
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 2:21 am
neverfail wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 5:23 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am

Trying to justify colonial methods doesn't make them any better. But it is surprising that in 2021 you still make the effort to try and excuse the brutality and lack of humanity of the settlers in respect of the people they came to oppress.
These days we don't - so you can get down off your judgementasl high horse now.
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:02 am
It doesn't even cross your mind that the natives could be happier living in their ancestral ways rather than adopting our aggressive posture, and that enough room (territory) should have been left them to continue living as they wished, for as long as they wished.
Oh come on, get real! If the British had not colonised Australia do you believe that other ambitious, energetic empire building nations of the time would not have moved in to the Australian power vacumn and done it in their place? One thing about which I am absolutely certain is that the Australian aboriginals and their accustomed way of life were both doomed.

History does not permit the maintenance of human, cultural and spiritual equivalent to Jurassic Park.
Which other ambitious, energetic empire building nation? Maybe the Aboriginal way of life had no future, but that wasn't your decision to take. But playing God is very much an Anglo thing, isn't it?...
Then why were you Portuguese in Angola? That includes you.

If the British were not there, maybe you Portuguese would have colonists Australia.
We came to Angola in the 15th century. Nothing to explain. And if we had colonized Australia, the Aborigines would be happier and in greater numbers...
We have to ask Angolans if they are happy of Portuguese colonial rule.

Had you colonised Australia, the abos might have become slaves.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:35 am

We have to ask Angolans if they are happy of Portuguese colonial rule.

Had you colonised Australia, the abos might have become slaves.
Angola is probably the most united and one of the most successful countries in Africa. No tribal or religious wars, no separatist movements. At least up to a point as the result of the way we ruled it.

The British did not enslave the Aborigines because they could rely on the forced labour of criminals deported from Britain... :D

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4968
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by cassowary » Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:57 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:35 am

We have to ask Angolans if they are happy of Portuguese colonial rule.

Had you colonised Australia, the abos might have become slaves.
Angola is probably the most united and one of the most successful countries in Africa. No tribal or religious wars, no separatist movements. At least up to a point as the result of the way we ruled it.

The British did not enslave the Aborigines because they could rely on the forced labour of criminals deported from Britain... :D
If Portuguese colonial rule was so enlightened, the Angolans would not have fought a war of independence.
The Imp :D

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4968
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by cassowary » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:39 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:35 am

We have to ask Angolans if they are happy of Portuguese colonial rule.

Had you colonised Australia, the abos might have become slaves.
Angola is probably the most united and one of the most successful countries in Africa. No tribal or religious wars, no separatist movements. At least up to a point as the result of the way we ruled it.

The British did not enslave the Aborigines because they could rely on the forced labour of criminals deported from Britain... :D
If Portuguese colonial rule was so enlightened, the Angolans would not have fought a war of independence.
By the way, the Chinese of Hong Kong never asked for independence. That’s because British rule there was enlightened or at least preferable to rule by your fellow Communists from China.

Socialist dictatorships which you support are far more oppressive.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 6991
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by neverfail » Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:46 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:35 am

We have to ask Angolans if they are happy of Portuguese colonial rule.

Had you colonised Australia, the abos might have become slaves.
Angola is probably the most united and one of the most successful countries in Africa. No tribal or religious wars, no separatist movements. At least up to a point as the result of the way we ruled it.
Well, Angola stil had that civil war between UNITA and MPLA that lasted for many years after Portugal abruptly dumped independence on the former colony without first of all brokering a peace deal and power sharing agreement between the two. Each party represented a different coalition of tribes - Jonas Savimbi's UNITA that of Angola's southern tribes.
The British did not enslave the Aborigines because they could rely on the forced labour of criminals deported from Britain... :D
Only up until a certain point in time Sertorio. Once a colony prospered to the point where the prevailing wage levels and general living standards had improved sufficiently to attract immigrant free labourers and artisans out from the British Isles.

The foundation colony of New South Wales had reached that point by 1838 after the UK had granted it autonomy with its own elected parliament. In 1840 two ships laden with convicts arrived at Sydney - and hundreds of free settlers staged a protest by swarming on to the wharf where the ships had berthed thereby denying access to the space needed to disembark the convicts. After a standoff the two ships had to be diverted up to the Mortern Bay colony (Brisbane) further north where there was not so much settler opposition to the arrival of convicts sent out from England.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 5222
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Good News from Cuba! [not for Sertorio]

Post by Sertorio » Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:32 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 3:57 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:53 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:35 am

We have to ask Angolans if they are happy of Portuguese colonial rule.

Had you colonised Australia, the abos might have become slaves.
Angola is probably the most united and one of the most successful countries in Africa. No tribal or religious wars, no separatist movements. At least up to a point as the result of the way we ruled it.

The British did not enslave the Aborigines because they could rely on the forced labour of criminals deported from Britain... :D
If Portuguese colonial rule was so enlightened, the Angolans would not have fought a war of independence.
They did and now have a very friendly relationship with Portugal. For instance, our Minister of Justice is a black Angolan woman whose family fought for independence...

Post Reply