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Re: Disintegration

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:37 am

lzzrdgrrl wrote:
Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:11 am
The American empire is over. ... American journalist Chris Hedges, in his 2018 book America The Farewell Tour, predicts that "within a decade, two at most" America will cease to be the dominant super-power in the world.
I think we're taking this statement a bit out of context. Implying the American empire has the impact of Rome is not the same as condoning or deploring it. The size of a tree can be determined from the girth of the stump it left behind. Chris Hedges, though a Marxist, is as black-pilled as you can get - he doesn't like anybody. He seems to be an archaiophile, a proponent of cyclical theory and of deep psychology. His distaste of the Trumpian populist revolt and anticapitalistic 'breadtube' sentiments I'm trying to look past to the deeper implications of his case....'>.....
Could it be that Chris Hedges is still following the Gospel of Marx?

In the wake of the 1848 upheavals in cities across Europe Marx and his wealthy benefactor Engels too it that the revolution that would bring about socialism must be close and that although thye crushing of these revolts represented a victory by the bourgeous class that victory was bound to be but a temporary postponement of the "inevitable" revolution to come. In crowed, troubled Europe that view must have had credibality in the eyes of more than just Marx and Engels.

Yet in the year 1848 something was happening on the Pacific coast of North America that was destined to trigger off a series of socio-economic shocks that gave capitalism a gigantic shot in the arm for decades to follow. A gold rush erupted in California that of course attracted a mass migration of fortune seekers to this recently annexed former Mexican territory.

That rush was by no means the end of the story. In 1851 an Australian fortune seeker who had been unsuccesful in making his fortune digging for gold in California, returned to his home country with memories of how similar the gold bearing country he had observed looked to a stretch of country he knew of back in New South Wales. He returned there and discovered "payable gold": triggering a gold rush to south eastern Australia tthat in terms of the amount of gold won and the number of of new immigrant settlers attracted to the new land matched, even exceeded, that of California.

Of course the flooding of the world with newly mined gold acted as a huge economic stimulous as it allowed governments to multiply the amount of gold coinage in curculation. That must that had an effect not uinlike that of "quantitave easing" by central banks in our time. Britain, at the time the World's biggest producer and exporter of manufactired goods enjoyed a very prosperous 1850's decade based in no small part I believe upon demand from a swelling population of immigrant gold seekers in the Australian colonies.

Marx and Engels took his time coming to terms with the gold rush phenonimun. The two initially dismissed it as a will-of-the-wisp....

https://surplusvalue.org.au/Marxism/Mar ... select.pdf

.....whose benefits would be fleeting and would soon pass away. As time moved on to the consternation of the two men the benefits became fixed and permanent. Settlers in both California and Australia who had initially come to seek gold when they failed to "make their pile" at the diggings moved on into other occupations. In that context the Colony of Victoria was especially successful into enticing unsuccessful ex-gold diggers into pioneering and ex-panding a multiplicity of new industries in their adopted country. For the United Kingdom it meant that they had a clutch of wealthy new colonies on the other side of the world that provided locrative markets for their country's exports; an escape route from poverty for their many working class emigrants bold enough to venture out there (not to mention foreign immigrants from other lands; including significent numbers of Chinese). Victoria also provided attractive returns for British investors who loaned or otherwise invested money there (just as I am sure California and other areas of the American west did for US east coast investors).

Even that was not the end of the gold rush story. There were subsequent gold rushes in both Colorado and in New Zealand in the 1860's; in the Lena River area of Russian Siberia in the 1870's; in South Africa in the 1880's; in Australia again in the early 1890's and in the Klondike region of far northwestern Canada in the latter 1890's - allo of which resulted in yet further multiple boosts to the global economy.

Marx and Engels must that died disappointed men.

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Re: Disintegration

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:24 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:37 am

Marx and Engels must [have] died disappointed men.
Marx and Engels were right about most things. Where they were wrong was in thinking that only the state owning the means of production could stop oligarchic capitalism. Workers self management and cooperatives are much more efficient means to prevent oligarchic capitalism. But sometimes the state must directly intervene in the economy, such as in controlling utilities, energy production or mass public transportation. Tito in Yugoslavia realized that but he didn't have the time to bring the system to full fruition.

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