China: now it is New Zealand's turn?

Discussion of current events
neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by neverfail » Tue May 04, 2021 6:06 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/comme ... om-beijing

Ardern’s speech was not an attack on China, or even a shift away from Beijing

Her words might have sounded tough to a domestic audience but in fact they’ll go down fine in China
Overseas readers may wonder about the contrast between the " conciliatory" tone of the New Zealand Prime Minister's approach to relations with the PRC and the noticably more bellicose one coming out with Australian government proclamations towards the same power.

It has more to do with internal politics than foreign relations. The "noises" coming out of Canberra reflects ongoing competition within Australia's governing party among prominent politicans jockying for the top job. In particular our Defence Minister Peter Dutton (a real hardliner) wants Scott Morrison's job as Prime Minister.

Holding on to government with a majority of just one seat in our Lower House of Parliament Scott Morrison simply does not wield the same authority within his government that his New Zealand peer and counterpart Jacinta Ardern (who rules with a comfortable majority) does within hers.
..........................................................................................................................................

The second factor at play is the relative "weight" placed on foreign policy matters by the two countries.

Look at a map of the Asia-Pacific region with special focus on Asia's southeastern corner. Australia's position reminds me of the circle at the end of a cul de sac street - with nothing beyond it to the south other than the chill, turbulent waters of the Southern Ocean and beyond that the ice floes of Antarctica. The Indonesian islands plus New Guinea between them form the "straight" part of the same dead end street.

By contrast New Zealand is way out there by itself in the southern Pacific Ocean connected up to no one in particular.

Virtually since the first British settlements were founded here in Australia just over 200 years ago we have lived with the sensation that "Asia is up there just over the horizon and for better or worse affects our destiny." I don't get the impression that our Kiwi cousins share that insight. They, after all, live in a land seperated from Asia both by a significently longer stretch of ocean in addition to having the bulk of continental Australia intruding in between forcing (I believe) a sense of seperation on to them.

The outcome is that bereft of the foreign relations and defence responsibilities that Australia must shoulder the Kiwis are left free to narrowly focus their attention on the matter of economic advantage.

Hence Jacinta Ardern's recent mealy mouthed "protest" :lol: against PRC human rights abuses.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by Sertorio » Wed May 05, 2021 1:01 am

neverfail wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 6:06 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/comme ... om-beijing

Ardern’s speech was not an attack on China, or even a shift away from Beijing

Her words might have sounded tough to a domestic audience but in fact they’ll go down fine in China
Overseas readers may wonder about the contrast between the " conciliatory" tone of the New Zealand Prime Minister's approach to relations with the PRC and the noticably more bellicose one coming out with Australian government proclamations towards the same power.

It has more to do with internal politics than foreign relations. The "noises" coming out of Canberra reflects ongoing competition within Australia's governing party among prominent politicans jockying for the top job. In particular our Defence Minister Peter Dutton (a real hardliner) wants Scott Morrison's job as Prime Minister.

Holding on to government with a majority of just one seat in our Lower House of Parliament Scott Morrison simply does not wield the same authority within his government that his New Zealand peer and counterpart Jacinta Ardern (who rules with a comfortable majority) does within hers.
..........................................................................................................................................

The second factor at play is the relative "weight" placed on foreign policy matters by the two countries.

Look at a map of the Asia-Pacific region with special focus on Asia's southeastern corner. Australia's position reminds me of the circle at the end of a cul de sac street - with nothing beyond it to the south other than the chill, turbulent waters of the Southern Ocean and beyond that the ice floes of Antarctica. The Indonesian islands plus New Guinea between them form the "straight" part of the same dead end street.

By contrast New Zealand is way out there by itself in the southern Pacific Ocean connected up to no one in particular.

Virtually since the first British settlements were founded here in Australia just over 200 years ago we have lived with the sensation that "Asia is up there just over the horizon and for better or worse affects our destiny." I don't get the impression that our Kiwi cousins share that insight. They, after all, live in a land seperated from Asia both by a significently longer stretch of ocean in addition to having the bulk of continental Australia intruding in between forcing (I believe) a sense of seperation on to them.

The outcome is that bereft of the foreign relations and defence responsibilities that Australia must shoulder the Kiwis are left free to narrowly focus their attention on the matter of economic advantage.

Hence Jacinta Ardern's recent mealy mouthed "protest" :lol: against PRC human rights abuses.
There is an alternative explanation: Jacinta Ardern is smarter than Scott Morrison, which doesn't seem too difficult to achieve. And so Ardern has understood that China is no danger to New Zealand. Anglos, because they are predators, have difficulty in understanding a non-predatory use of power. Contrarily to Anglos, China does not want power to dominate others, but not to be dominated by others. Left alone, China only wants to trade and get richer and it knows it does no good killing the golden egg laying goose. Chinese are a five thousand year civilization which may have been once predatory, but no longer. Anglos are savages who barely benefited from the old Greek-Roman civilization. Now that the Anglo cycle is coming to an end, I hope the world will become a more peaceful place.

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by neverfail » Wed May 05, 2021 2:22 am

Sertorio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:01 am

There is an alternative explanation: Jacinta Ardern is smarter than Scott Morrison, which doesn't seem too difficult to achieve. And so Ardern has understood that China is no danger to New Zealand. Anglos, because they are predators, have difficulty in understanding a non-predatory use of power. Contrarily to Anglos, China does not want power to dominate others, but not to be dominated by others. Left alone, China only wants to trade and get richer and it knows it does no good killing the golden egg laying goose. Chinese are a five thousand year civilization which may have been once predatory, but no longer. Anglos are savages who barely benefited from the old Greek-Roman civilization. Now that the Anglo cycle is coming to an end, I hope the world will become a more peaceful place.
None of that is true Sertorio.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by Sertorio » Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:22 am
Sertorio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:01 am

There is an alternative explanation: Jacinta Ardern is smarter than Scott Morrison, which doesn't seem too difficult to achieve. And so Ardern has understood that China is no danger to New Zealand. Anglos, because they are predators, have difficulty in understanding a non-predatory use of power. Contrarily to Anglos, China does not want power to dominate others, but not to be dominated by others. Left alone, China only wants to trade and get richer and it knows it does no good killing the golden egg laying goose. Chinese are a five thousand year civilization which may have been once predatory, but no longer. Anglos are savages who barely benefited from the old Greek-Roman civilization. Now that the Anglo cycle is coming to an end, I hope the world will become a more peaceful place.
None of that is true Sertorio.
You are naturally not psychologically prepared to accept what I said. Which, by the way, is the plain truth.

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by neverfail » Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 am
You are naturally not psychologically prepared to accept what I said. Which, by the way, is the plain truth.
:lol: Are you "physcologically prepared" to admit that you do not know what you are talking about,Sertorio? :)

User avatar
Milo
Posts: 3194
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by Milo » Wed May 05, 2021 5:06 pm

neverfail wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 am
You are naturally not psychologically prepared to accept what I said. Which, by the way, is the plain truth.
:lol: Are you "physcologically prepared" to admit that you do not know what you are talking about,Sertorio? :)
That might be the most bigoted thing I’ve ever seen posted.

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by neverfail » Wed May 05, 2021 5:58 pm

Milo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:06 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 am
You are naturally not psychologically prepared to accept what I said. Which, by the way, is the plain truth.
:lol: Are you "physcologically prepared" to admit that you do not know what you are talking about,Sertorio? :)
That might be the most bigoted thing I’ve ever seen posted.
Which one?

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by Sertorio » Thu May 06, 2021 1:15 am

neverfail wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:58 pm
Milo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:06 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:12 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 am
You are naturally not psychologically prepared to accept what I said. Which, by the way, is the plain truth.
:lol: Are you "physcologically prepared" to admit that you do not know what you are talking about,Sertorio? :)
That might be the most bigoted thing I’ve ever seen posted.
Which one?
Of course he means mine! Him being an Anglo, he couldn't think otherwise. But mind you, I have a soft spot for Anglos... Britain helped Portugal on several occasions - and it screwed us on quite a few others - I am a big fan of British humour and English is my favourite language (after my own). I read a lot in English, I write a lot in English, I even think a lot in English. But Anglos are f---ing bastards who consider themselves superior to all other peoples, who have no qualms screwing and exploiting everybody else. Damn arrogant, arrogance will finally destroy them. But a long time ago I even thought about emigrating to Australia... :D

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by neverfail » Thu May 06, 2021 4:15 am

Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:15 am
But a long time ago I even thought about emigrating to Australia... :D
What stopped you from doing so, Sertorio?

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: China: it seems that New Zealand's is trying to have it both ways.

Post by Sertorio » Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 am

neverfail wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:15 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 1:15 am
But a long time ago I even thought about emigrating to Australia... :D
What stopped you from doing so, Sertorio?
Mostly family reasons. Had I done it I'm sure I would have been happy in Australia, but I certainly would not vote for the present government... :D

Post Reply