18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Discussion of current events
User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4835
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by cassowary » Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 3:49 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:55 pm

You need to read up about Operation Warped Speed, initiated by Trump. You also need to differentiate with what comes out from Trump's mouth with what comes from his pen. Trump says outrageous things but his executive decisions were mostly correct. His decision making skills were honed from years of being a successful businessman.

Excerpt from link:
Operation Warp Speed’s leadership borrowed a more practical model: the industrial mobilization during World War II that produced the so-called Arsenal of Democracy.

That model can still push the vaccine rollout over the finish line. Governors and other state officials in particular need to realize the federal government is operating in the wake of a health-care version of Pearl Harbor, and adjust their operations accordingly.

From the beginning the principal mission of Operation Warp Speed was the development, manufacturing, and distribution—i.e., shipping—of coronavirus vaccines. To date, the program has managed to produce and deliver about 50 million vaccine doses—all made in the U.S.—with hundreds of millions more on the way. It also had 97,000 certified receivers distributing the vaccine across the U.S.

It is the most remarkable achievement in modern medicine, made possible by following the model of the World War II mobilization effort. That model rests on three principles.

First, set a clear target and a firm deadline. Operation Warp Speed’s goal was 20 million vaccine doses by December 2020. Aiming at that target enabled the program’s leaders, Gen. Gustave Perna and Dr. Moncef Slaoui (who resigned last month at the Biden administration’s request but will stay on as a consultant), to focus everyone in Operation Warp Speed on achieving a single result.

Second, mobilize the best pharmaceutical and drug manufacturing companies to hit the target, so that private industry invests its energy and productivity in the plan. During World War II, the big automotive and electrical companies became the driving engine of the mobilization effort, though many had never before produced arms or weapons.


In Operation Warp Speed’s case, the vaccine effort went from a single manufacturing facility in the U.S. to a network of facilities where the country’s drug companies could pool efforts to develop and manufacture vaccines. What traditional health-care experts thought of as a laboratory process became an industrial process—with prodigious results. Companies like FedEx and UPS were pressed into service to deliver the finished product.

Third, maintain government oversight from start to finish. The Commerce, Defense, and Health and Human Services departments invoked the Defense Production Act 18 times to prioritize materials and supplies for Operation Warp Speed, and get government contracts for vaccine development and manufacturing to the head of the line. The use of federal authority to guide but not micromanage the private economy’s efforts was key to producing victory in World War II and to creating the Covid vaccine in record time.

In the U.S. federal system, however, state governments can’t be steamrolled by Washington. The Arsenal of Democracy was able to ship its goods to two all-powerful federal agencies, the War and Navy departments, which knew how to get those weapons to the soldiers, sailors and airmen who would use them. There’s no corresponding federal agency in this case.
This is one instance that I concede the government can do better than the free market. Operation Warp Speed took months to come up with a vaccine that normally takes years to develop. So Trump deserves the credit for this. Biden wants to take the credit for falling infection rates and depreciate the contribution of the Trump administration. The bottlenecks are in the delivery of the vaccine, which is not the purview of Operation Warp Speed. This distribution lies in the hands of state governors as what the article points out.
The government led by Scott Morrison did not "steamroller" our state governments here in Australia. He enlisted their cooperation in the venture of "managing" the epidemic here to the point where it had ceased to be an epidemic; just occasional isolated single digit eruptions, months before the first vacines became available.

Was it not beyond the realm of possibility that Trump could have done the same thing in the United States, thereby saving the lives of up to half a million? He did not even try!

What came out of Trump's flapping, bullshiting mouth counts. Instead of ignoring party divisions; courting co-operation at state level for the purpose of making controlling the epidemic a joint national effort involving everyone, he alienated potential supporters of such a project by taking cheap shots at state administrations and popular figures on the Democrats side.

By the way: the Astra Zenica vacine developed at Oxford University came on the market at about the same time as America's first. It was not just in the USA that developing a syrum-remedy was top priority. Even China and Russia purportedly came up with their own vacine remedies at about the same time.
Trump tried to help the states but politics intruded. For example, he sent a Military hospital ship and field hospital to New York. But Cuomo refused to use them , preferring to send Covid patients to old folks home instead.
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 6748
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by neverfail » Sat May 01, 2021 8:35 pm

cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

Trump tried to help the states but politics intruded. For example, he sent a Military hospital ship and field hospital to New York. But Cuomo refused to use them , preferring to send Covid patients to old folks home instead.
I know not who this Cuomo is/was but he sounds like someone who might have wielded some power in New York (State? City?).

Did he give a plausable explanation as to why?

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4835
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by cassowary » Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:35 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

Trump tried to help the states but politics intruded. For example, he sent a Military hospital ship and field hospital to New York. But Cuomo refused to use them , preferring to send Covid patients to old folks home instead.
I know not who this Cuomo is/was but he sounds like someone who might have wielded some power in New York (State? City?).

Did he give a plausable explanation as to why?
Cuomo is the governor of New York. He is now in trouble for lying about the deaths in the nursing homes.

Military ship and hospital sent by Trump was grossly under utilised. Why was that? Why didn’t Cuomo send the COVID patients to the two hospitals instead of the nursing homes?

I can think of only one reason. The Democrats didn’t want Trump to look good. It’s just politics. As I said, many politicians, especially from the left side don’t care about the country or about you. All they want are power, money and girls.
The Imp :D

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4996
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by Sertorio » Sun May 02, 2021 12:45 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:35 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

Trump tried to help the states but politics intruded. For example, he sent a Military hospital ship and field hospital to New York. But Cuomo refused to use them , preferring to send Covid patients to old folks home instead.
I know not who this Cuomo is/was but he sounds like someone who might have wielded some power in New York (State? City?).

Did he give a plausable explanation as to why?
Cuomo is the governor of New York. He is now in trouble for lying about the deaths in the nursing homes.

Military ship and hospital sent by Trump was grossly under utilised. Why was that? Why didn’t Cuomo send the COVID patients to the two hospitals instead of the nursing homes?

I can think of only one reason. The Democrats didn’t want Trump to look good. It’s just politics. As I said, many politicians, especially from the left side don’t care about the country or about you. All they want are power, money and girls.
Some of them prefer boys... Let's not be homophobic... :lol:

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4835
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by cassowary » Sun May 02, 2021 2:10 am

Sertorio wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 12:45 am
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:35 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

Trump tried to help the states but politics intruded. For example, he sent a Military hospital ship and field hospital to New York. But Cuomo refused to use them , preferring to send Covid patients to old folks home instead.
I know not who this Cuomo is/was but he sounds like someone who might have wielded some power in New York (State? City?).

Did he give a plausable explanation as to why?
Cuomo is the governor of New York. He is now in trouble for lying about the deaths in the nursing homes.

Military ship and hospital sent by Trump was grossly under utilised. Why was that? Why didn’t Cuomo send the COVID patients to the two hospitals instead of the nursing homes?

I can think of only one reason. The Democrats didn’t want Trump to look good. It’s just politics. As I said, many politicians, especially from the left side don’t care about the country or about you. All they want are power, money and girls.
Some of them prefer boys... Let's not be homophobic... :lol:
:lol:
The Imp :D

neverfail
Posts: 6748
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by neverfail » Sun May 02, 2021 3:12 am

cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 11:45 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 8:35 pm
cassowary wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:57 pm

Trump tried to help the states but politics intruded. For example, he sent a Military hospital ship and field hospital to New York. But Cuomo refused to use them , preferring to send Covid patients to old folks home instead.
I know not who this Cuomo is/was but he sounds like someone who might have wielded some power in New York (State? City?).

Did he give a plausable explanation as to why?
Cuomo is the governor of New York. He is now in trouble for lying about the deaths in the nursing homes.
We had an eruption or two of Covid cases in old peoples' nursing homes even here in Australia earlier in the epidemic - but that was among old people already resident. The virus had been brought in either by visiting family members and friends who had become infected outside or else by nurses who likewise had likewise picked up the virus. When the authories found out they quickly quarinteened these places and took preventative measures to ensure that no such infections occurred elsewhere.

Nursing homes for the elderly are simply not equipped to care for Covid infected patients. Deliberately sending alrerady Covid infected individuals to these places to infect still uninfected residents there I agree that even if done as a back up measure when the regular NY hospitals were overpowered by the sheer influx of infected at the height of the epidemic then rather than reflecting callousness on Cuomo's part then it just as likely reflects a profound ignorence of the part of Cuomo about the nature of infection and the handling of epidemic conditions (and likely, just like Trump, an unwillingness to listen to the advice of medical experts on the matter - a behavoural trait that Coumo likely shares with Donald Trump.)

(It makes me wonder where do the US political parties find ignorent, egocentric arseholes like those to run for elected high office?)
Did the State government of New York even request a hospital ship be sent?

What two hospitals Cassowary? I am sure that there must be more than two hospitals within the bounds of greater New York City along with adjacent metropolitan centres such as Jersey City that could have taken in Covid patients. Their combined capacity would have been many times greater than that of a military hospital ship. In numbers those that the hospital ship could have treated as the pandemic raged in New York would have likely been like a drop of water in the Ocean.

This and another hospital ship Trump dispatched in California (likely also sent to embarass that state's Democrats Administration) were NOT part of any coordinated plan to combat the spread of the epidemic across the United States but only unhelpful gestures serving to score political goals for D Trump.

Why did not Cuomo not send Covid infected patients to "two hospitals" ( :idea: do you mean hospitals on dry land as I had assumed or did you mean two hospital ships Cassowary? :?:) . How would I f**king-well know? But I do not believe that Donald Trump ever did a thing in his life for the general wellbeing of society at large - it was/is all about him don't forget). Trump would have ordered that (those? ) hospital ships to NYC for the dual purpose of burnishing his own image and to embarass a high profile political figure on the Democrats side of politics. Well of course Cuomo would have seen through the ploy and refused to co-operate. (In Coumo's shoes I would have done the same.)
I can think of only one reason. The Democrats didn’t want Trump to look good.
CASSOWARY: The Democrats did not even need to try to make this arsehole look bad. Trump managed to do that all by himself. Wake up!

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5415
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by Doc » Sun May 02, 2021 10:08 am

dagbay wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 6:11 pm
Doc wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:51 am
Sertorio wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:25 am
neverfail wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:41 pm
Doc wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:27 pm
neverfail wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:22 pm
Don't worry about it Doc.. According to Hindu belief they will be all reincarnated into another life anyhow.
According to their beliefs, Jews murdered by the Nazis went to heaven.
Really? I did not think that Hindu's believed in an afterlife in heaven but of perpetual reincarnations into higher or lower states of being depending on the type of accumulated karma (merit? grace?) on the soul over the present and past successive lifespans.
The eternal inability of most human beings accepting death for what it is - a necessary episode for evolution...
DO you know Sertorio that there is no arrow of time? That implies that time does not exist as we perceive it. Once you are gone the time you existed and your existence itself still exists. At least for as long as the universe exists, you still exist in time. It could be part of religion or not. The physics does not say either way.
This discussion is off topic but still the statement that "that there is no arrow of time" is very simplistic. True that some physical laws work equally for positive and negative time, but for the 2nd law of thermodynamics which has not been challenged and which states that Entropy increases with time. In modern terms we would say that the probability of Entropy reversal may not be precisely zero but it is infiticimally small.. However, one states it, increasing Entropy gives meaning to the direction of time (read arrow of time).
It is not about entropy. It is about how we perceive time.
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

neverfail
Posts: 6748
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by neverfail » Sun May 02, 2021 8:06 pm

As of now numbers of Covid infections in the US are in decline as are numbers of deaths. Is it not amazing how a change of government at executive level can also change some other things for the better in its wake? :D

In any case now back to India - where they are reputedly struggling to get enough oxygen to save lives (and not just due to an air pollution problem in their big cities either). :lol: :(

India now has approximately the same size population as China but jammed into a subcontinent only one third the terrestial size of China. I would anticipate that the pandemic will rage on and on in this country until the death toll tops that of the USA with numbers of victims to spare.

India might well be a freer country than the PRC but alas, the government there does not seem to be anything like as much on the ball as that of the PRC.

User avatar
Doc
Posts: 5415
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:09 pm
Location: Cradle To Grave

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by Doc » Mon May 03, 2021 9:33 am

neverfail wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:06 pm
As of now numbers of Covid infections in the US are in decline as are numbers of deaths. Is it not amazing how a change of government at executive level can also change some other things for the better in its wake? :D

In any case now back to India - where they are reputedly struggling to get enough oxygen to save lives (and not just due to an air pollution problem in their big cities either). :lol: :(

India now has approximately the same size population as China but jammed into a subcontinent only one third the terrestial size of China. I would anticipate that the pandemic will rage on and on in this country until the death toll tops that of the USA with numbers of victims to spare.

India might well be a freer country than the PRC but alas, the government there does not seem to be anything like as much on the ball as that of the PRC.
Welding the door shut on the homes of people indicates the CCP does not care about its people. If that is "On the Ball" you can have it
“"I fancied myself as some kind of god....It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.” -- George Soros

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4996
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: 18 million infected in India. People dying at the gates of hospital

Post by Sertorio » Mon May 03, 2021 10:24 am

Doc wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 9:33 am
neverfail wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:06 pm
As of now numbers of Covid infections in the US are in decline as are numbers of deaths. Is it not amazing how a change of government at executive level can also change some other things for the better in its wake? :D

In any case now back to India - where they are reputedly struggling to get enough oxygen to save lives (and not just due to an air pollution problem in their big cities either). :lol: :(

India now has approximately the same size population as China but jammed into a subcontinent only one third the terrestial size of China. I would anticipate that the pandemic will rage on and on in this country until the death toll tops that of the USA with numbers of victims to spare.

India might well be a freer country than the PRC but alas, the government there does not seem to be anything like as much on the ball as that of the PRC.
Welding the door shut on the homes of people indicates the CCP does not care about its people. If that is "On the Ball" you can have it
Chinese people are disciplined enough not to need being physically prevented from leaving home. They knew they had to accept a drastic lockdown to defeat the pandemic, so they did it and China is almost totally free of the virus. Welding doors might be necessary in the US, but not in China...

Post Reply