Naughty Israelis?

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neverfail
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by neverfail » Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 am


That the numbers were so precise, not a tiny bit smaller or bigger, that allows for the universe as well as humans to exist, speaks to me of a purposeful Creation. Where there is a Creation, there has to be a Creator.
Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .

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Sertorio
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:23 am

cassowary wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:54 pm
Loving thy enemies is difficult. Bearing the guilt of say fornication was even more difficult. Confessions to the priest was embarrassing 😳 “You again Sertorio?” So one day, Sertorio decided to be free of all that by stop believing.
Loving thy enemies seems to be difficult particularly to you. As a Calvinist, you prefer to kill them all on sight, including women and children... :twisted:

Bearing the guilt of fornication? Me, a Latino? Most enjoyable "sin" in the world... :D

I decided to stop believing when I decided to start using my brains...

Maybe you should dedicate some time reading Epicurus. Although he lived about 2,300 years ago he still could teach you somethings about god, the soul, death and immortality... Prepare to be shocked... :D

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cassowary
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am

neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 am


That the numbers were so precise, not a tiny bit smaller or bigger, that allows for the universe as well as humans to exist, speaks to me of a purposeful Creation. Where there is a Creation, there has to be a Creator.
Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .
I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 am


That the numbers were so precise, not a tiny bit smaller or bigger, that allows for the universe as well as humans to exist, speaks to me of a purposeful Creation. Where there is a Creation, there has to be a Creator.
Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .
I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
That's where you and NF make a mistake: there was no "Creation", therefore there is no "Creator"...

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cassowary
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:28 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 am


That the numbers were so precise, not a tiny bit smaller or bigger, that allows for the universe as well as humans to exist, speaks to me of a purposeful Creation. Where there is a Creation, there has to be a Creator.
Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .
I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
That's where you and NF make a mistake: there was no "Creation", therefore there is no "Creator"...
There was no universe before. Then suddenly there was one. It took a lot of energy to create the universe. Where did that energy come from? The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy that created the universe must have come from Somebody.
The Imp :D

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Sertorio
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Sertorio » Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:39 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:28 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 am


That the numbers were so precise, not a tiny bit smaller or bigger, that allows for the universe as well as humans to exist, speaks to me of a purposeful Creation. Where there is a Creation, there has to be a Creator.
Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .
I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
That's where you and NF make a mistake: there was no "Creation", therefore there is no "Creator"...
There was no universe before. Then suddenly there was one. It took a lot of energy to create the universe. Where did that energy come from? The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy that created the universe must have come from Somebody.
Your (and everybody else's) ignorance doesn't mean the Universe could not happen without a "Creator"... Creation is the obvious answer for the ignorant...

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cassowary
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:01 pm

Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:39 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:28 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:57 am


That the numbers were so precise, not a tiny bit smaller or bigger, that allows for the universe as well as humans to exist, speaks to me of a purposeful Creation. Where there is a Creation, there has to be a Creator.
Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .
I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
That's where you and NF make a mistake: there was no "Creation", therefore there is no "Creator"...
There was no universe before. Then suddenly there was one. It took a lot of energy to create the universe. Where did that energy come from? The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy that created the universe must have come from Somebody.
Your (and everybody else's) ignorance doesn't mean the Universe could not happen without a "Creator"... Creation is the obvious answer for the ignorant...
Then give us your explanation where the energy came from? Remember the first law of thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. So how can an event (Big Bang) occur which necessitated the violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics without a Creator?

https://www2.estrellamountain.edu/facul ... ener1.html
The Imp :D

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dagbay
Posts: 508
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Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by dagbay » Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:29 pm

cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:01 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:39 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:28 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am
neverfail wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:44 am


Classic Thomist philosophy, Cass.

You should seriously consider becoming a Catholic :D .
I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
That's where you and NF make a mistake: there was no "Creation", therefore there is no "Creator"...
There was no universe before. Then suddenly there was one. It took a lot of energy to create the universe. Where did that energy come from? The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy that created the universe must have come from Somebody.
Your (and everybody else's) ignorance doesn't mean the Universe could not happen without a "Creator"... Creation is the obvious answer for the ignorant...
Then give us your explanation where the energy came from? Remember the first law of thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. So how can an event (Big Bang) occur which necessitated the violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics unless there was a Creator.

https://www2.estrellamountain.edu/facul ... ener1.html
I do not understand what the universe creation has to do with Iran.... This thread devolved into yet another discussion of theology.
But to the point: we do not know much about the universe and less so about its creation as well as absolutely nothing about what preceded it if at all. But we have theories that are predictive and therefore successful about ~5% of the universe that we can detect. The rest is Dark energy and matter which we can infer but cannot measure. From what we are able to measure we can project the current expansion back in time to a theorized "Big bang" but that is not a fact that can be confirmed. We actually are limited in our imaging ability to the "first light" epoch. There are numerous theories about what might have happened prior to that including the notion of inflation. We do not even have any solid proof that the "laws of physics" as we know them today held back then not to mention before the Big bang". Even today our laws of nature explain only visible matter. We have no idea how they need to be modified to account for the remaining 95% of the universe which is invisible and inaccessible to us.
Consequently I would not be fixated on using our flimsy ideas about the universe to argue about Creation and creator.
I'd rather be diving or flying alas for now I am on terra firma.

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cassowary
Posts: 4910
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:12 pm

dagbay wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:29 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:01 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:39 pm
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:28 pm
Sertorio wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:32 am
cassowary wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:22 am


I do attend the Catholic church if invited by friends, Neverfail. No objection whatsever. We worship the same God though you guys get a few things wrong.
That's where you and NF make a mistake: there was no "Creation", therefore there is no "Creator"...
There was no universe before. Then suddenly there was one. It took a lot of energy to create the universe. Where did that energy come from? The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. So the energy that created the universe must have come from Somebody.
Your (and everybody else's) ignorance doesn't mean the Universe could not happen without a "Creator"... Creation is the obvious answer for the ignorant...
Then give us your explanation where the energy came from? Remember the first law of thermodynamics. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. So how can an event (Big Bang) occur which necessitated the violation of the First Law of Thermodynamics unless there was a Creator.

https://www2.estrellamountain.edu/facul ... ener1.html
I do not understand what the universe creation has to do with Iran.... This thread devolved into yet another discussion of theology.
But to the point: we do not know much about the universe and less so about its creation as well as absolutely nothing about what preceded it if at all. But we have theories that are predictive and therefore successful about ~5% of the universe that we can detect. The rest is Dark energy and matter which we can infer but cannot measure. From what we are able to measure we can project the current expansion back in time to a theorized "Big bang" but that is not a fact that can be confirmed. We actually are limited in our imaging ability to the "first light" epoch. There are numerous theories about what might have happened prior to that including the notion of inflation. We do not even have any solid proof that the "laws of physics" as we know them today held back then not to mention before the Big bang". Even today our laws of nature explain only visible matter. We have no idea how they need to be modified to account for the remaining 95% of the universe which is invisible and inaccessible to us.
Consequently I would not be fixated on using our flimsy ideas about the universe to argue about Creation and creator.
So in other words, our scientific knowledge is very limited. All the more not to fully trust it. Those who say they believe in science are believing in the little we know and forgetting that there is even more that we don’t know. The laws of nature we discovered, as you said, pertains only to the 5% of the universe that we can see. And even then, we don’t know everything. Maybe we only know 5% of this 5%.

So let the Marxist materialists like Sertorio be humbled by that thought. God will always be a mystery, likely beyond human power of comprehending.
The Imp :D

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cassowary
Posts: 4910
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How did a discussion about an Israeli Attack on Iran become a theological discussion?

Post by cassowary » Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:31 pm

A discussion in Iran raised comments on Iranian theocracy. Then Sertorio felt the need to compare it with Israeli theocracy. This sparked a defence of Israel from Ellen or Dagbay. This prompted snide comments from atheist Sertorio on the belief of spirits , meaning God. Neverfail and I responded to that.

Do you all want to go back to discussing Iran?
The Imp :D

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