Naughty Israelis?

Discussion of current events
Jim the Moron
Posts: 2238
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Naughty Israelis?

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:59 am

"Mossad behind cyber attack against Iran's Natanz nuclear facility"

https://jpost.com/middle-east/incident- ... ity-664792

My first thought was that this attack should be laid at the feet of a sinister collaboration between Burundi and Paraguay. But Israel? Whoda thunk?

Ellen
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:02 pm

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Ellen » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:48 pm

The Iranian regime is getting a taste of what's in store for them if they continue to threaten Israel. They are being humiliated in front of the world and in front of their own people. Everything they spent millions of dollars building over months and years, at the expense of their own society's welfare, is being blown up through cyber warfare, and they can't defend against it or retaliate in kind.

Meanwhile, the appeasers from Europe and Biden's people are getting ready for more useless meetings in Geneva where they prepare to capitulate to Iranian demands. ...The real action is on the ground in the Middle East. They're just a self-important bunch of nobodies disgracing themselves.

And where is Iran's great new ally - China? Nowhere to be seen. Typical. They won't lift a finger to help Iran, and neither will Putin. Theocracies never win. Especially of the Islamic variety.

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by neverfail » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:26 pm

Ellen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:48 pm
Meanwhile, the appeasers from Europe and Biden's people are getting ready for more useless meetings in Geneva where they prepare to capitulate to Iranian demands. ..
Now, why would they want to do that Ellen?

User avatar
cassowary
Posts: 4825
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:30 pm

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by cassowary » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:43 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:26 pm
Ellen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:48 pm
Meanwhile, the appeasers from Europe and Biden's people are getting ready for more useless meetings in Geneva where they prepare to capitulate to Iranian demands. ..
Now, why would they want to do that Ellen?
Good question. No good reason they should but that’s what OBUMa did. The fear is that Biden is oBUMa II.
The Imp :D

Jim the Moron
Posts: 2238
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:51 pm

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Jim the Moron » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:47 pm

neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:26 pm
Ellen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:48 pm
Meanwhile, the appeasers from Europe and Biden's people are getting ready for more useless meetings in Geneva where they prepare to capitulate to Iranian demands. ..
Now, why would they want to do that Ellen?

Because that's what the political left does in the West. Think John Kerry-Heinz. Kiss up to Islam while failing to support Israel. There's a lot of anti-Semitism out there.

Ellen
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:02 pm

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Ellen » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:35 am

Well, now that you bring up the subject of John Kerry and his ketchup queen wife (and fortune), where is he these days? He was the author of the travesty of the original Iran Deal, along with several others who are all back in power after a four year hiatus.

The world has changed, though. The Israelis and Sunni Arabs are now on the same side (!) in this quarrel. Amazing as that might seem, it does change things. And Biden's senility also changes things. For the worse. Not because his decisions are likely to be more faulty without his cognitive faculties functioning. Actually, it means that he's not even running his own White House at all.

Obama is running things completely, as we can now see by the return of all the Obamoids to the same positions they had previously, except Ben Rhodes. He has become a persona non grata because he described the media in Washington as a bunch of know nothings who constitute an echo chamber. Ouch. All the others are back to the same incompetence, cowardice, and malfeasance that they were noted for 4-8 years ago.

What's a sane person to do, in these circumstances? Throw all sorts of obstructionist cogs into the wheels of foreign policy in Washington. That is what the Republicans in Congress are now doing. They themselves have not excelled in the demonstration of competency, recently, but at least they know how to block the Obamoids from wreaking more havoc. Have at it, boys.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:24 am

Jim the Moron wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:47 pm
neverfail wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:26 pm
Ellen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:48 pm
Meanwhile, the appeasers from Europe and Biden's people are getting ready for more useless meetings in Geneva where they prepare to capitulate to Iranian demands. ..
Now, why would they want to do that Ellen?

Because that's what the political left does in the West. Think John Kerry-Heinz. Kiss up to Islam while failing to support Israel. There's a lot of anti-Semitism out there.
Supporting Israel and Israel's right to exist does not mean supporting everything Israel does. I would remind Ellen that Israel is also a sort of theocracy, with all the failings of such. Making Israel a unified, secular state, with the West Bank and giving the Palestinians actually living there the opportunity to become Israeli citizens, might go a long way towards pacifying the situation. A secular state recognizing to the Muslim minority the same rights of the Jewish majority may be all West Bank Palestinians want. As to Gaza, giving it back to Egypt might be the best solution.

Ellen
Posts: 207
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:02 pm

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Ellen » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:04 am

Israel is in some ways a quasi-theocracy. One of my close friends complains about this all the time.

But, what is the difference between a Jewish quasi-theocracy and an Islamic full-blown theocracy?

The Muslim theocracy wants to wage permanent jihad against all of its neighbors, the Western world, and most of its own citizens who are now secular. That's a tall order of battle for a not-very-competent regime with little cash flow.

In contrast, what does Israel's quasi theocracy want to accomplish with its limited power? They want strict public observance of the laws concerning kosher food, observance of the Sabbath, and prevention of conversions that are less stringent than the ultraorthodox variety. Who is bothered by these things in the whole world? Nobody except the citizens of Israel and potential immigrants who were not born of a Jewish mother or are not willing to undergo the very demanding Orthodox conversion procedure. Most of the world's 7 billion inhabitants have no reason to care one way or the other.

So, I wouldn't compare the two.

Regarding the Palestinians. Gaza is already an independent state whose inhabitants want to flee to anywhere in the world they can get admitted to. It effectively is already part of Egypt. The West Bank will never be a Palestinian state. The Arab parts of it will be attached to the future Palestinian state in Jordan. The Hashemite Kingdom is on its last legs. If the Palestinians have any real desire for a state (I doubt that they do), that is where their efforts should be focused. They will never get citizenship in Israel.

neverfail
Posts: 6718
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:47 am
Location: Singapore

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by neverfail » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:05 am

Ellen wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:35 am
Well, now that you bring up the subject of John Kerry and his ketchup queen wife (and fortune), where is he these days? He was the author of the travesty of the original Iran Deal, along with several others who are all back in power after a four year hiatus.

The world has changed, though. The Israelis and Sunni Arabs are now on the same side (!) in this quarrel. Amazing as that might seem, it does change things. And Biden's senility also changes things. For the worse. Not because his decisions are likely to be more faulty without his cognitive faculties functioning. Actually, it means that he's not even running his own White House at all.

Obama is running things completely, as we can now see by the return of all the Obamoids to the same positions they had previously, except Ben Rhodes. He has become a persona non grata because he described the media in Washington as a bunch of know nothings who constitute an echo chamber. Ouch. All the others are back to the same incompetence, cowardice, and malfeasance that they were noted for 4-8 years ago.

What's a sane person to do, in these circumstances? Throw all sorts of obstructionist cogs into the wheels of foreign policy in Washington. That is what the Republicans in Congress are now doing. They themselves have not excelled in the demonstration of competency, recently, but at least they know how to block the Obamoids from wreaking more havoc. Have at it, boys.
I have doubts about whether any of your own (or the other posters') finger pointing at Iran, Obama, John Kerry and Joe Biden is justified.

Apparently Iran's agreement entered into at the time of Obama's second term which limited this country's uranium enrichment programme to attain only a low level of purity (good enough to generate electric power but way, way short of the 90% purity needed to manifacture thermonuclear bombs) was working. International inspectors routinely monitored Irans centrifuges and the Iranian authorities permitted them to do it.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33521655

It all came crashing to a stop when that beligerant fool of a president Donald Trump unilaterally withdrew Americasn support for the agreement. None of America's European allies ended their support - and I do not believe it was prompted by any residual European anti-semitism either. Instead, European policy makers as a rule are sensible people who know a good thing when they see it.

It that regard I see the thinking of the US Democrats as being closer to that of America's allies abroad and a contrast to the hooligan nationalist wing of the US Republican party appealed to by Donald Trump.Israel was much safer when the agreement was fully operational before Trump rashly and irresponsibly voided it. Doing that gave the Iranians a licence to resume enriching uranium up to weapons grade with a view to becoming nuclear armed in self-defence - bearing in mind that Iran demonstrated no urge to become a nuclear power until President George Bush Jr. made his infamous speech lableeing Iran, Iraq and North Korea as jointly forming an "axis of evil"

I(n every way the United States has given the iranians cause to see the USA as a hostile power that they cannot trust.

If the Israelis understood on which side their bread was buttered on they would now be given the Biden administtration unstinting support in its revival.

But then there is the sort of Jewish paranoia that holds the belief that some category of anti-Semetic goyim is always out to get them: since shedding this notion would deflate them of much of their sense of moral ascentency; the key to Jewish self-importance.

User avatar
Sertorio
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 am

Re: Naughty Israelis?

Post by Sertorio » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:27 am

Ellen wrote:
Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:04 am
Israel is in some ways a quasi-theocracy. One of my close friends complains about this all the time.

But, what is the difference between a Jewish quasi-theocracy and an Islamic full-blown theocracy?

The Muslim theocracy wants to wage permanent jihad against all of its neighbors, the Western world, and most of its own citizens who are now secular. That's a tall order of battle for a not-very-competent regime with little cash flow.

In contrast, what does Israel's quasi theocracy want to accomplish with its limited power? They want strict public observance of the laws concerning kosher food, observance of the Sabbath, and prevention of conversions that are less stringent than the ultraorthodox variety. Who is bothered by these things in the whole world? Nobody except the citizens of Israel and potential immigrants who were not born of a Jewish mother or are not willing to undergo the very demanding Orthodox conversion procedure. Most of the world's 7 billion inhabitants have no reason to care one way or the other.

So, I wouldn't compare the two.

Regarding the Palestinians. Gaza is already an independent state whose inhabitants want to flee to anywhere in the world they can get admitted to. It effectively is already part of Egypt. The West Bank will never be a Palestinian state. The Arab parts of it will be attached to the future Palestinian state in Jordan. The Hashemite Kingdom is on its last legs. If the Palestinians have any real desire for a state (I doubt that they do), that is where their efforts should be focused. They will never get citizenship in Israel.
If all Arab residents in the West Bank were to become Israeli citizens, Israel would have a total of 4.7 million Arab citizens, against close to 7 million Jewish citizens. As it is to be expected that both groups would converge to a similar rate of growth, I do not think that the Jewish population would ever risk becoming a minority. So, why not?

Post Reply